Comments | hp_fictalk: The term IC/OOC in H/D post-Hogwarts long stories

painless_j in hp_fictalk

The term IC/OOC in H/D post-Hogwarts long stories

Feb 13, 2004 19:51

wayfairer's post of recs pushed me to thinking in an unexpected direction.

She recommended fearlessdiva 's Tissue of Silver ("ToS is one of the best full-length fics in the fandom despite its rough state, and the new rewrites have turned it from a purely skilled, romantic fic to an absolutely incredible work. Go. Read. And then go fangirl her on the Armchair. :D") ( Read more... )

Comments 24

cathexys February 13 2004, 10:45:36 UTC

This is a really interesting question and reminds me of the similar questions I always have about AU's, i.e., at what point is it not really fanfic any more.

I'd like to add another one, resonant's Transfigurations, which was actually my entry story into HP. I still adore with a passion but which some people have made the argument that the characters are very OOC. Another one, of course, is AJ Hall's Lust over PendleThe two simple tests for me are: do I recognize the person without his/her name? That's actually the PWP test for me...if I can replace the names and it stays the same, it was probably generic and OOC (no real good HP examples for either...if you want pop ones, though, I can definitely help. LOL.) The second test for me is whether there is anything in the character that specifically contradicts canon and if there is whether the author has sufficiently explained ( ... )

Re: painless_j February 13 2004, 17:28:12 UTC

I awfully love both fics you named :) However I remember thinking that Draco is OOC in Transfigurations when I was reading it. But after reading several more stories of the type, I changed my mind ( ... )

eilandesq February 16 2004, 20:25:05 UTC

"The two simple tests for me are: do I recognize the person without his/her name? That's actually the PWP test for me...if I can replace the names and it stays the same, it was probably generic and OOC (no real good HP examples for either...if you want pop ones, though, I can definitely help. LOL.) The second test for me is whether there is anything in the character that specifically contradicts canon and if there is whether the author has sufficiently explained ( ... )

verstehen February 13 2004, 16:24:30 UTC

I can't give examples from any of those stories, as the only one I've read is The Lodger. From reading the summaries, the only one I would read is Tissue of Silver. But that's because super!Harry is a kink of mine and not because I think it seems plausible.

I think we can talk about IC/OOC with future stories easily. See, there's logical development and illogical development. Stories in which Harry is dead is a logical development of the plot. Stories in which Hermione goes to university is an illogical development of the plot and therefore OOC. Stories which take care to have a logical extrapolation from canon are going to feel more IC that ones that ignore canon entirely or make assumptions that are false.

Re: painless_j February 13 2004, 17:09:41 UTC

I'm dim or it's just 4 am. Why does Hermione's going to university is an illogical development? Because of non-mentioning of the universities in canon or because it contradicts her character? Please, answer, I do want to know why you think so.

I have to appeal to cathexys' thought that there are things that can change people. Especially if we speak about rather long periods of time. If in a fic the characters were 20-22 years old, then possibly we could use such categories as logical development. If they are 30, no, I think we can't. Who could predict that a shy, reserved and quiet teenager [my boyfriend] would turn into a missile-like, confident, loud and outgoing man by his 35?

But well, I'm incorrect, you speak of the development of the plot. I suppose it's too early for us to speak about it. Reading the third book, I wouldn't expect the 'Snape's worst memory' chapter, which makes Marauders far more complicated than they were seen with the eyes of 13-year old Harry. Even Harry himself of the 5th book is very different from the Harry of ( ... )

Re: verstehen February 13 2004, 17:40:13 UTC

Well, Rowling has said that there are no wizard universities. No wizard higher education. So, having Hermione going to a wizard university, as such, would be contradicting canon.

Even worse are the stories that have a wizard going to a Muggle university. Their education ended at age eleven. They don't have the tests to get in. And if, by chance they managed to fake the scores and education, a wizard would flunk out at the beginning of the first semester. That's seven years of education they don't have.

I have to appeal to cathexys' thought that there are things that can change people. Especially if we speak about rather long periods of time. If in a fic the characters were 20-22 years old, then possibly we could use such categories as logical development. If they are 30, no, I think we can' ( ... )

Re: painless_j February 13 2004, 18:05:44 UTC

re universities: yes, agree, especially Muggle ones.

re everything else: point is clear :) Thank you.

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lizbee February 13 2004, 17:08:26 UTC

I think, as others have said, that the key point here is logical versus illogical development. If you want Draco to be an Auror, or Harry to be Minister of Magic, then you'd damn well better explain how and why they found themselves in those positions ( ... )

Re: painless_j February 13 2004, 17:14:47 UTC

I agree in general and completely agree with the example :) The question is - where are the boundaries in every case and what we see as credible. Would you like to give an example of what you think an IC 'former Hogwarts student' in a future-fic?

Re: lizbee February 13 2004, 17:22:14 UTC

Hermione and Neville feel very IC in ajhalluk's "Lust Over Pendle" and "Dissipation and Despair". My dislike for Draco makes it impossible for me to judge his character there, though.

Also, everyone feels IC in "Flame and Shadow" by Maya -- except, again, Draco. Okay, and Harry, because I project my dislike for Draco onto Harry, and have trouble reading H/D. Just one of those funny things, I guess. I ship Ron/Hermione, but "Flame and Shadow" convinced me that there are ways in which that relationship wouldn't work, and I never once felt that Ron or Hermione were OOC. (Or Pansy, come to that.)

Re: painless_j February 13 2004, 17:34:43 UTC

We call it the bread and butter rule - it certainly must be that of all Maya's fics I haven't read Flame and Shadow. Well, good excuse for me to do it.

However, I've read AJHall's novels. Now the next question (I agree about Hermione): how can you tell that Neville is IC? Why do you think so? [if I'm bothered you to death with questions, just tell me to piss off]. I would say that Draco in the first novel is IC enough, although glamoured, as for me. But would say that Neville is IC only as far as his communication with his Grandmother goes.

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