I can barely begin to say how much I love this vid. 'The Doctor Isn't Human' is my main reason for watching the show, and the thing I keep exploring in my fic, and your vid gave me too many thinky thoughts to count. But, once I have some time, I shall write meta on this! Oh yes.
For now, I shall just flail and admire, because this is so very, very gorgeous and clever. Also, the vid reminded me of this drabble, which is the best (Doctor) drabble ever written.
I can't thank you enough for linking me to that beautiful, BEAUTIFUL drabble. You're absolutely right, it's the best ever written. Perfection in its simplicity and I agree with it 100%.
Maybe reading that combined with your wonderful comment has overwhelmed me slightly. But even in that first sentence -- "...and the Doctor Dances" -- I know in my heart that we're on the same page. This vid has turned out to be something that I've been needing to say for quite some time. I'm glad that you understood, and hey, if ever you were to write meta, I'd love to read it. The Doctor's non-human behavior is a favorite topic of mine.
I can't thank you enough for linking me to that beautiful, BEAUTIFUL drabble. My pleasure. I pimp it whenever I can, for obvious reasons! :)
But even in that first sentence -- "...and the Doctor Dances" -- I know in my heart that we're on the same page. ::beams:: The ending just floored me. The only time a DW vid has ever done anything similar was 'Handlebars', although that was a shiver of something like terror at what the Doctor is capable of/what he has done... (He is in many ways a monster, and how come we forget that when he smiles?)
But the cutting from "Save us" to the Doctor walking away, to the war images, to the Doctor dancing, joyously, is just so... unexpected and shocking on a completely different level. I hesitate to use the word 'obscene', but I can't think of another. And at the same time, it makes me happy. His delight in the wonders of the universe is not a bad thing in and of itself.
Actually, I think a lot of it comes down to that quote from 'Voyage of the Damned' (from memory): "If you could choose, who lives
( ... )
The ending just floored me. The only time a DW vid has ever done anything similar was 'Handlebars', although that was a shiver of something like terror at what the Doctor is capable of/what he has done... Oh! This is a great compliment. THANK YOU! I've actually seen others compare it to Handlebars as well, so it's very happy making in my face. :) And certainly there are sections in this vid that are direct homages to Handlebars so you're supposed to think about the message in both and I'm glad you did.
I hesitate to use the word 'obscene', but I can't think of another. Man, you're just winning me over! :D Srsly, use that word. It's supposed to be a moment where the Doctor is naked. Not literally, of course, but he's there. the whole point of John Smith is that he's the spine of the Doctor, a bit of a self-absorbed prick really. So that theme carries over to the ending. THAT guy is the real Doctor. THAT guy dances on your grave, literally. THAT guy is above it all. And why? Because he can. He's a monster and he creates monsters (
( ... )
And certainly there are sections in this vid that are direct homages to Handlebars so you're supposed to think about the message in both and I'm glad you did. Oh I couldn't not. (As I said, there'll be meta. Already started, actually.)
Man, you're just winning me over! :D Srsly, use that word. :)
THAT guy is the real Doctor. THAT guy dances on your grave, literally. THAT guy is above it all. And why? Because he can. I have many thinky thoughts about this. MANY! (I saw the comment about how the Doctor leaves because of humanity's darkness. To that I'd add a third interpretation - what does he owe us? The Doctor is not responsible for humanity's crimes - if the goldfish start killing each other, then that is their problem. Incidentally I think that what works incredibly well for the vid - and the whole idea, generally, is the WWI setting. WWII had much clearer 'good' and 'bad' sides, whereas WWI was such a hopeless waste, waged by people like John Smith who were sure they were 'right' quite simply because of who they were
( ... )
I saw the comment about how the Doctor leaves because of humanity's darkness. To that I'd add a third interpretation - what does he owe us? The Doctor is not responsible for humanity's crimes - if the goldfish start killing each other, then that is their problem. I personally don't agree with the take on that the Doctor leaves because of humanities darkness, but I can't deny that interpretation. But your third interpretation is very close to my own (uh, second interpretation?) that he leaves because he's just better than humanity. I was very much inspired by the notion of The Watchmen when I thought of this vid, particularly the role of Dr. Manhattan as he like the Doctor can lose interest in humanity's petty wars.
Incidentally I think that what works incredibly well for the vid - and the whole idea, generally, is the WWI setting. WWII had much clearer 'good' and 'bad' sides, whereas WWI was such a hopeless waste, waged by people like John Smith who were sure they were 'right' quite simply because of who they were.It's very true.
( ... )
Argh I just lost my whole comment! Let me try to re-construct...
I personally don't agree with the take on that the Doctor leaves because of humanities darkness, but I can't deny that interpretation. I don't think the Doctor has any illusions when it comes to humans: "I gave them the wrong warning. I should've told them to run - as fast as they can, run and hide because the monsters are coming; the human race."
I was very much inspired by the notion of The Watchmen when I thought of this vid, particularly the role of Dr. Manhattan as he like the Doctor can lose interest in humanity's petty wars. Ooooh, I like! The film was at times *way* too violent, but the themes and ideas it explored were *fascinating*. Why I'd never thought to parallel Dr Manhattan and the Doctor I don't know, but it's brilliant!
And of course the irony of Jack, the Earth-bound version of the Doctor (or as I like to think of him as the Doctor without a TARDIS), being in charge of the organization is remarkable.You know, I think one big reason that the Doctor
( ... )
In terms of The Watchmen, I'm not like an avid fan or anything, but I did see the film and just the concept it, the idea of "Who Watches the Watchmen" in general is VERY Doctor Who (and especially Torchwood) and I love it. The notion of this group of superheroes charged with taking care of humanity, but only one of them has true powers, and what does he do? He loses interest. So to me that screams the Doctor since he, like Dr. Manhattan, is a god among men. He can easily say screw it and hop to Mars to build a giant glass castle thing or whatever he wants. He can easily lose interest in Earthly matters because he can see so much more! Also they have the same name. :P Bada bum tshh!
You know, I think one big reason that the Doctor dislikes Torchwood so much is that its world view is very similar to his own. (Ideas above their station...).Exactly! What the Doctor hates most, is a mirror to his face. He loves to live in denial. I mean that's the whole point of him and Rose (though sadly there
( ... )
Noes! I HATE when LJ eats comments! :'( It might have been my 8 y.o.'s fault, since she distracted me and suddenly the comment was GONE! :(
the idea of "Who Watches the Watchmen" in general is VERY Doctor Who (and especially Torchwood) and I love it. *nods a lot* Same here!
The notion of this group of superheroes charged with taking care of humanity, but only one of them has true powers, and what does he do? He loses interest. So to me that screams the Doctor since he, like Dr. Manhattan, is a god among men. He can easily say screw it and hop to Mars to build a giant glass castle thing or whatever he wants. He can easily lose interest in Earthly matters because he can see so much more! Also they have the same name. :P Bada bum tshh! Hee! I don't think that's all though. The Doctor runs away for a lot of reasons, one of which being that he keeps losing people (often because of what he is) and he can't deal with the pain. (Very Manhattan, actually.) This vid shows is perfectly! Yes, he runs, which Davros calls him on - but in a way
( ... )
Ah well here we run into the personal views of the Doctor and the show. I've realized that I don't pity him. Now what you say about his running away due to all the people he keeps losing, well again I bring up that mirror. What Davros called him on was creating an army to fight for him. It's his so-called principles that get in the way of him picking up a gun, but in reality it's his cowardice. Look at Human Nature. John Smith held that rifle, but what happened next? He let all those boys do the shooting, just like he taught them. That's sort of what that vid you linked to is about, the pain he feels when Davros calls him on it. The pain and the shame. And yes, Jack runs away because he leads all his little soldiers to death as well, but then Jack is always there to pull the trigger himself as well. That's HIS problem.
Anyway if you want to see an incredible vid dealing with the Doctor's guilt and the pain of being a Time Lord you should check out New Dawn Fades (if you haven't already). It's my favorite character study of him. (
( ... )
Ah well here we run into the personal views of the Doctor and the show. Indeed. And it's all the different POVs that make discussions so interesting. :)
It's his so-called principles that get in the way of him picking up a gun, but in reality it's his cowardice. Hmmmm. Yes and no. I think the Doctor is very, very good at lying to himself, and running away, and saying 'I'm not a soldier' (Oh, how I love Jenny calling him on it!), but part of it, I think, is because he knows what he is capable of. That he has the power to destroy worlds, and has done so. To quote Angel: "I happen to be the greatest mass murderer you've ever met." (But, I'm writing meta, so I will stop! And nearly asleep... I just *had* to check my e-mail.)
Anyway if you want to see an incredible vid dealing with the Doctor's guilt and the pain of being a Time Lord you should check out New Dawn Fades (if you haven't already). I have! (I need to leave feedback, I know.) But yes, excellent vid.
I shall refrain from making any kind of response that would keep you from sleepy time. :) Aw, thanks! And in return I shall give you fic recs! *g* Firstly Even the Damned, which is the post-CoE Jack/Ten reunion that they *ought* to film. The second rec is a little more tricky, since I haven't actually written it yet... (But it will be a part of this 'verse if you feel like checking it out. Plotbunnies are currently eating me alive. *kicks them*)
I shall say, however, that it's been a pleasure talking thinky thoughts with you. Yay! :D Oh same here! And I am trying to get the meta to behave, it's just being awkward. Give it a week (or maybe two) and I should have it done. I just keep running off on tangents.
Oh goodness me. You've given me so much reading material! Haha! (Oh and that AU verse tho interesting sounding totally confused me because I'm kind of obsessed with Legend of the Seeker so yeah, I had to read it a couple times to understand that it wasn't a crossover. :P)
Oh goodness me. You've given me so much reading material! Haha! ::hides:: Sorry. It's a thing.
I'm kind of obsessed with Legend of the Seeker so yeah, I had to read it a couple times to understand that it wasn't a crossover. :P Yes, it is unfortunately a very common name in SF/fantasy, but that's what he wanted to call himself. OCs can be awkward.
And now I shall leave you alone. (Esp since RL is getting busy. *sigh*)
I can barely begin to say how much I love this vid. 'The Doctor Isn't Human' is my main reason for watching the show, and the thing I keep exploring in my fic, and your vid gave me too many thinky thoughts to count. But, once I have some time, I shall write meta on this! Oh yes.
For now, I shall just flail and admire, because this is so very, very gorgeous and clever. Also, the vid reminded me of this drabble, which is the best (Doctor) drabble ever written.
Reply
Maybe reading that combined with your wonderful comment has overwhelmed me slightly. But even in that first sentence -- "...and the Doctor Dances" -- I know in my heart that we're on the same page. This vid has turned out to be something that I've been needing to say for quite some time. I'm glad that you understood, and hey, if ever you were to write meta, I'd love to read it. The Doctor's non-human behavior is a favorite topic of mine.
Again I say THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH!
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My pleasure. I pimp it whenever I can, for obvious reasons! :)
But even in that first sentence -- "...and the Doctor Dances" -- I know in my heart that we're on the same page.
::beams:: The ending just floored me. The only time a DW vid has ever done anything similar was 'Handlebars', although that was a shiver of something like terror at what the Doctor is capable of/what he has done... (He is in many ways a monster, and how come we forget that when he smiles?)
But the cutting from "Save us" to the Doctor walking away, to the war images, to the Doctor dancing, joyously, is just so... unexpected and shocking on a completely different level. I hesitate to use the word 'obscene', but I can't think of another. And at the same time, it makes me happy. His delight in the wonders of the universe is not a bad thing in and of itself.
Actually, I think a lot of it comes down to that quote from 'Voyage of the Damned' (from memory): "If you could choose, who lives ( ... )
Reply
Oh! This is a great compliment. THANK YOU! I've actually seen others compare it to Handlebars as well, so it's very happy making in my face. :) And certainly there are sections in this vid that are direct homages to Handlebars so you're supposed to think about the message in both and I'm glad you did.
I hesitate to use the word 'obscene', but I can't think of another.
Man, you're just winning me over! :D Srsly, use that word. It's supposed to be a moment where the Doctor is naked. Not literally, of course, but he's there. the whole point of John Smith is that he's the spine of the Doctor, a bit of a self-absorbed prick really. So that theme carries over to the ending. THAT guy is the real Doctor. THAT guy dances on your grave, literally. THAT guy is above it all. And why? Because he can. He's a monster and he creates monsters ( ( ... )
Reply
Oh I couldn't not. (As I said, there'll be meta. Already started, actually.)
Man, you're just winning me over! :D Srsly, use that word.
:)
THAT guy is the real Doctor. THAT guy dances on your grave, literally. THAT guy is above it all. And why? Because he can.
I have many thinky thoughts about this. MANY! (I saw the comment about how the Doctor leaves because of humanity's darkness. To that I'd add a third interpretation - what does he owe us? The Doctor is not responsible for humanity's crimes - if the goldfish start killing each other, then that is their problem. Incidentally I think that what works incredibly well for the vid - and the whole idea, generally, is the WWI setting. WWII had much clearer 'good' and 'bad' sides, whereas WWI was such a hopeless waste, waged by people like John Smith who were sure they were 'right' quite simply because of who they were ( ... )
Reply
I personally don't agree with the take on that the Doctor leaves because of humanities darkness, but I can't deny that interpretation. But your third interpretation is very close to my own (uh, second interpretation?) that he leaves because he's just better than humanity. I was very much inspired by the notion of The Watchmen when I thought of this vid, particularly the role of Dr. Manhattan as he like the Doctor can lose interest in humanity's petty wars.
Incidentally I think that what works incredibly well for the vid - and the whole idea, generally, is the WWI setting. WWII had much clearer 'good' and 'bad' sides, whereas WWI was such a hopeless waste, waged by people like John Smith who were sure they were 'right' quite simply because of who they were.It's very true. ( ... )
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I personally don't agree with the take on that the Doctor leaves because of humanities darkness, but I can't deny that interpretation.
I don't think the Doctor has any illusions when it comes to humans: "I gave them the wrong warning. I should've told them to run - as fast as they can, run and hide because the monsters are coming; the human race."
I was very much inspired by the notion of The Watchmen when I thought of this vid, particularly the role of Dr. Manhattan as he like the Doctor can lose interest in humanity's petty wars.
Ooooh, I like! The film was at times *way* too violent, but the themes and ideas it explored were *fascinating*. Why I'd never thought to parallel Dr Manhattan and the Doctor I don't know, but it's brilliant!
And of course the irony of Jack, the Earth-bound version of the Doctor (or as I like to think of him as the Doctor without a TARDIS), being in charge of the organization is remarkable.You know, I think one big reason that the Doctor ( ... )
Reply
In terms of The Watchmen, I'm not like an avid fan or anything, but I did see the film and just the concept it, the idea of "Who Watches the Watchmen" in general is VERY Doctor Who (and especially Torchwood) and I love it. The notion of this group of superheroes charged with taking care of humanity, but only one of them has true powers, and what does he do? He loses interest. So to me that screams the Doctor since he, like Dr. Manhattan, is a god among men. He can easily say screw it and hop to Mars to build a giant glass castle thing or whatever he wants. He can easily lose interest in Earthly matters because he can see so much more! Also they have the same name. :P Bada bum tshh!
You know, I think one big reason that the Doctor dislikes Torchwood so much is that its world view is very similar to his own. (Ideas above their station...).Exactly! What the Doctor hates most, is a mirror to his face. He loves to live in denial. I mean that's the whole point of him and Rose (though sadly there ( ... )
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It might have been my 8 y.o.'s fault, since she distracted me and suddenly the comment was GONE! :(
the idea of "Who Watches the Watchmen" in general is VERY Doctor Who (and especially Torchwood) and I love it.
*nods a lot* Same here!
The notion of this group of superheroes charged with taking care of humanity, but only one of them has true powers, and what does he do? He loses interest. So to me that screams the Doctor since he, like Dr. Manhattan, is a god among men. He can easily say screw it and hop to Mars to build a giant glass castle thing or whatever he wants. He can easily lose interest in Earthly matters because he can see so much more! Also they have the same name. :P Bada bum tshh!
Hee! I don't think that's all though. The Doctor runs away for a lot of reasons, one of which being that he keeps losing people (often because of what he is) and he can't deal with the pain. (Very Manhattan, actually.) This vid shows is perfectly! Yes, he runs, which Davros calls him on - but in a way ( ... )
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Anyway if you want to see an incredible vid dealing with the Doctor's guilt and the pain of being a Time Lord you should check out New Dawn Fades (if you haven't already). It's my favorite character study of him. ( ( ... )
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Indeed. And it's all the different POVs that make discussions so interesting. :)
It's his so-called principles that get in the way of him picking up a gun, but in reality it's his cowardice.
Hmmmm. Yes and no. I think the Doctor is very, very good at lying to himself, and running away, and saying 'I'm not a soldier' (Oh, how I love Jenny calling him on it!), but part of it, I think, is because he knows what he is capable of. That he has the power to destroy worlds, and has done so. To quote Angel: "I happen to be the greatest mass murderer you've ever met." (But, I'm writing meta, so I will stop! And nearly asleep... I just *had* to check my e-mail.)
Anyway if you want to see an incredible vid dealing with the Doctor's guilt and the pain of being a Time Lord you should check out New Dawn Fades (if you haven't already).
I have! (I need to leave feedback, I know.) But yes, excellent vid.
And now goodnight!
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I shall say, however, that it's been a pleasure talking thinky thoughts with you. Yay! :D
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Aw, thanks! And in return I shall give you fic recs! *g* Firstly Even the Damned, which is the post-CoE Jack/Ten reunion that they *ought* to film. The second rec is a little more tricky, since I haven't actually written it yet... (But it will be a part of this 'verse if you feel like checking it out. Plotbunnies are currently eating me alive. *kicks them*)
I shall say, however, that it's been a pleasure talking thinky thoughts with you. Yay! :D
Oh same here! And I am trying to get the meta to behave, it's just being awkward. Give it a week (or maybe two) and I should have it done. I just keep running off on tangents.
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Legend of the Seeker so yeah, I had to read it a couple times to understand that it wasn't a crossover. :P)
No worries about the meta. Pace yourself. :)
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::hides:: Sorry. It's a thing.
I'm kind of obsessed with Legend of the Seeker so yeah, I had to read it a couple times to understand that it wasn't a crossover. :P
Yes, it is unfortunately a very common name in SF/fantasy, but that's what he wanted to call himself. OCs can be awkward.
And now I shall leave you alone. (Esp since RL is getting busy. *sigh*)
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