because this conversation just wasn't fun enough without me

[hesychasm]

I should not be blogging at work, and especially not blogging something potentially offensive at work, but I need to get this off my chest.

With respect to International Blog Against Racism Week, the intent is admirable and I appreciate the openness and willingness to talk about issues that seem to make people -- especially white people --

Comments

[hederahelix]

Word.

You said, succinctly, about 90% of what I've been trying to nail down for like the last two weeks.

The advice about getting out of your comfort zone is seriously the dealbreaker here. I mean, all the other things have to be in place, but until more of the white folks like me start doing that, NOTHING is going to change.

I think a big part of the problem is that a lot of privileged folks, regardless of what flavor of priv. we're talking about, think they know people from minority groups because they have lunch once a month at work, or they go to big social gatherings together, but those are always encounters in situations where they are still the majority.

So the experience you've had with that one black friend, to use one example, you have from college, who is the same socioeconomic strata as you are, has not taught you everything you need to know about African American culture and issues. I mean, seriously, in how many contexts in college have you had the chance to hear about the way that over winter break, when her dad went to buy a car, nobody at the dealership came over to see if they needed help because the salespeople assumed they weren't serious buyers? And how much did you learn about the amount of money and time your college friend spends getting her hair done?

I've been thinking about this a lot because it's starting to seem to me that there's some tipping point kind of threshold for us white folks. That at some point to see what's really going on you can't have a token number of friends from various marginalized groups: one black, one Southeast Asian, one Pacific Islander, one Queer, etc. You have to have done the work of not only educating yourself but building up trust and numbers so that the POC you're friends with finally feel safe enough to let you see some of what's really going on.

As a white woman, I'm more likely to see that and have the experience of feeling like a member of a marginalized group if I get into contexts where I am the only white person around, or where I'm at least significantly outnumbered.

Otherwise, thanks to the societal level racism, I'm still in charge even when I say I'm not. If that makes sense.

My point is that I think your post said articulately something that had been floating around in my head for a while.

And I think that's what you're getting at with the outside the comfort zone part, but you're putting it much more clearly and succinctly than I'd managed to.

So thank you.

[hesychasm]

Ack, no, this whole comment is basically what I was trying to say. So thank YOU. (g)

You have to have done the work of not only educating yourself but building up trust and numbers so that the POC you're friends with finally feel safe enough to let you see some of what's really going on.

This says so much in one sentence. It reminds me of, and perfectly sums up, a perpetually touchy point surrounding the closed support groups for minority students at my college. Despite being one of the most militantly liberal schools in the country, there was controversy every year about why white students couldn't attend the weekly meetings of the various organizations for students of color. Well, frankly, it was because we couldn't trust that every white person would be ready to hear the kinds of things we were saying about our personal experiences with racism. We could go back to our dorms and have the exact same conversations with our white friends, but we had to do it on that individual basis, on terms negotiated within each particular relationship, after gauging how receptive we thought those white friends would be. And more often than not they'd just get the carefully abridged version anyway. I made the mistake a few times of being too frank with people too soon, and learned the hard way that not everyone was okay with hearing certain things.

Otherwise, thanks to the societal level racism, I'm still in charge even when I say I'm not.

Absolutely. This is why I think it's so important to have repeated exposure to situations where you (general you) lose the safety of the majority. It's not enough to just have a few token experiences and say you learned from them, because at the end of the day it's quite easy to just go back to the same old life and the same old safe handwringing. You've got to do the difficult stuff: continue doing the work, continue having those experiences, talk to more people of color who aren't just reflections of yourself, keep challenging yourself. Only then might you even begin to learn what it can really be like for people who aren't the same as you.

Of course, not everyone can do this, and I understand that you can be earnest about race relations even if you aren't able to rack up the same sort of street credibility, so to speak. But I wish more people would realize that they're missing something huge if they don't try, because just talking about this stuff will only get you so far.

[aud_woman_in]

Despite being one of the most militantly liberal schools in the country, there was controversy every year about why white students couldn't attend the weekly meetings of the various organizations for students of color. Well, frankly, it was because we couldn't trust that every white person would be ready to hear the kinds of things we were saying about our personal experiences with racism.

You mentioned earlier racism among various groups of POC, and I'm wondering if black students were allowed to attend meetings of the support group for Latinos, etc? And how did bi- or multi-racial students figure out where to fit in? I'm not being facetious here, I am sincerely curious about how experiences of prejudice between non-whites compare with those between whites and POC.

[hesychasm]

Students were allowed into the groups based on how they self-identified, so as long as you self-identified as the same race which was in the name of the group, you were in. Which begged the question, what if a white person grew up in Asia and self-identified as Asian? We never had that problem in my four years as an undergrad, but it was always an interesting argument to get into. (g)

Students of mixed heritage were always allowed into whichever group they identified themselves as being part of, but during my senior year a Multi group started meeting for the specific purpose of giving mixed students a place to talk. I can't remember if they were exclusive, and I'm not sure what happened to them after I graduated.

(I would never think you were anything but sincere about this stuff!)