Lefty Lunacy

[hebrewhammer777]

Behind the lj-cut is an argument I had with a lefty acquaintance regarding the recent terrorist bombing in Tel Aviv which killed nine people and wounded over 50 at a food stand. Among the ridiculous arguments he makes are

Comments

[capt_oblivion]

oh yeah, I also contend that all people, including the mentally handicapped, are capable of making choices. Even if they are persuaded by lies to do fucked up things, they still choose to flick the switch and detonate the bomb. They still choose to die in the process of killing.

What makes a person choose to die?

insane

[hebrewhammer777]

So you're justifying the use of mentally handicapped children being manipulated by terrorists into killing themselves? Wow...

Re: insane

[brendo]

See?? He needs a helmet.

Re: insane

[capt_oblivion]

Where did I use the word "justified"?

All I'm claiming is that a person chose to kill themselves and others. Do you deny that fact? What here leads you to believe I'm justifying anything at all?

Re: insane

[hebrewhammer777]

Elsewhere you've said:
-"revolutionary activities, even violent ones, can be justified"
-"mentally handicapped [people] are capable of making choices"
-"Even if they are persuaded by lies to do fucked up things, they still choose to flick the switch and detonate the bomb. They still choose to die in the process of killing."

Anyone reading that would logically conclude that you support the use of mentally handicapped people as human bombs. If you don't, come right out and say so!

Btw, I imagine that you are against the death penalty for the mentally disabled (as am I) -- most people take this position because they recognize that mentally challenged people often do not have the mental capacity to understand the difference between right and wrong. If you read the story I linked to, you'll see the poor kid said that he didn't want to die while his brother said "He doesn't know anything, and he has the intelligence of a 12-year-old." But I guess 12 year olds are old enough to make life and death decisions too, right?

Re: insane

[capt_oblivion]

Those statements are unrelated to each other. Also, I have not seen you explain the logical train of reasoning that leads you to the conclusion that I support using the mentally handicapped as human bombs.

Re: insane

[hebrewhammer777]

Those statements are not unrelated! Again, you deny reality! Granted, the first statement wasn't *directly* related to mentally challenged children but it was related to justifying terrorism. The other two statements were arguing that even mentally challenged children can make choices. If you argue that terrorism is justified and that mentally challenged children can choose to participate in terrorism, you are essentially arguing that it's justified to use mentally challenged children as human bombs.

If this isn't what you're arguing, say so. You've still yet to condemn this practice. Your silence is leading me (and presumably every rational person reading this) to conclude that you support it.

Take a damn position!

Re: insane

[capt_oblivion]

I said revolutionary activities... I thought you said terrorism was violence against civilians. I think there's a difference between wghat I said, and what you said I said.

As far as my views on terrorism, I think that terrorism is often (though not always) a result of oppressive policies by the state. It is often also and act of desperation due to the inability of the terrorist to engage militaries in conventional war fare. This isn't a matter of being "pro-terrorist" or "anti-terrorist" (since I largely view these two positions as being more or less the same). It's a matter of acknowledging the fact that terrorism exists for certain reasons, and that in order to eliminate terrorism, one has to eliminate the reasons for its existence. It would also be helpful for certain parties to stop engaging in it (that doesn't mean just Palestinians by the way). This might not get rid of all terrorism, but it's a start, and a step in the right direction.

Re: insane

[capt_oblivion]

You could shore up on your understanding of the classical double effect principle. Clearly there is a moral distinction people getting killed as a result of terrorism and collateral damage as a result of just strikes