Lefty Lunacy
Behind the lj-cut is an argument I had with a lefty acquaintance regarding the recent terrorist bombing in Tel Aviv which killed nine people and wounded over 50 at a food stand. Among the ridiculous arguments he makes are:
-It's perfectly acceptable that Hamas supports terrorist attacks on Israeli civilians (in fact, it would be "unreasonable to demand that they condemn these attacks")
-Israel should negotiate with Hamas even though Hamas doesn't recognize Israel's right to exist
-It's perfectly acceptable for Palestinian terrorists to strap bombs on mentally challenged kids to send them to die in order to murder Jews ("mentally challenged people don't make choices?")
I'm presenting the convo unedited, so you'll see that I lose my cool a few times. That's the problem with arguing with idiots; they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. Here's the convo in its full glory:
Socrates374 (11:55:56 PM): hey
Socrates374 (11:59:55 PM): just wondering what you make of this quote: Sami Abu Zuhri, the official spokesman for Hamas, said it was "a natural result of the continued Israeli crimes" against Palestinians. "Our people are in a state of self-defence and they have every right to use all means to defend themselves," he added.
Socrates374 (12:00:25 AM): interesting rhetoric for a terrorist attack
Socrates374 (12:01:32 AM): they're not responsible for it, but they are not willing to create divisions among the Palestinian factions.
Socrates374 (12:01:57 AM): It seems to me that they fear infighting as much as they fear Israel.
Socrates374 (12:02:03 AM): just my interpretation
Socrates374 (12:15:02 AM): and also I can't forget to mention, george ryan the first republican of many yet to come, to go to prison.
HebrewHammer777 (12:28:01 AM): haven't been keeping up w/ the news so much so I don't know who George Ryan is
HebrewHammer777 (12:28:14 AM): but what the terrorist said is disgusting
HebrewHammer777 (12:28:38 AM): "we have the right to murder Jewish civilians while they shop for produce... in self-defense"
Socrates374 (12:30:42 AM): they didn't do it though
Socrates374 (12:30:49 AM): Hamas, that is
HebrewHammer777 (12:30:54 AM): right, Hezbollah did
HebrewHammer777 (12:31:01 AM): but Hamas supported it
Socrates374 (12:31:02 AM): no,
Socrates374 (12:31:06 AM): Islamic jihad
Socrates374 (12:31:19 AM): hamas didn't know about it until it happened
Socrates374 (12:31:42 AM): you know, there are competing factions on the Palestinian side
Socrates374 (12:32:22 AM): somebody wanted to fuck stuff up when hamas was seeking aid abroad
HebrewHammer777 (12:33:42 AM): Hezbollah *is* Islamic Jihad
Socrates374 (12:33:49 AM): because Islamic Jihad knows that we will hold Hamas responsible no matter who sends the bobmber out there
HebrewHammer777 (12:33:54 AM): and yes, I know that the Palestinians aren't united
HebrewHammer777 (12:33:58 AM): neither are the Israelis
Socrates374 (12:34:07 AM): obviously
HebrewHammer777 (12:34:13 AM): but the Palestinian terrorist groups are united on one issue: killing Jews
Socrates374 (12:34:55 AM): dude, perhaps we shouldn't look for excuses to stop a peace settlement from being reached
Socrates374 (12:35:08 AM): you can't hold hamas responsible for this attack
HebrewHammer777 (12:35:35 AM): I'm not holding them responsible for the attack
Socrates374 (12:35:47 AM): good,
HebrewHammer777 (12:35:47 AM): I'm holding them responsible for condoning and supporting the attack
HebrewHammer777 (12:36:02 AM): you can't make peace with someone who supports murdering your civilians
Socrates374 (12:36:23 AM): you know they can't do anything to start a civil war among the palestinian factions
Socrates374 (12:36:36 AM): it's a practical matter
Socrates374 (12:37:33 AM): condemning or trying to "police" Islamic Jihad would only create violence amongst each other, which is what they don't want
Socrates374 (12:37:50 AM): its unreasonable to demand that they condemn these attacks
HebrewHammer777 (12:39:15 AM): you've just reached the point of no return
HebrewHammer777 (12:39:24 AM): "its unreasonable to demand that they condemn these attacks"
HebrewHammer777 (12:39:34 AM): then it's unreasonable for Israel to make peace
Socrates374 (12:39:44 AM): considering their position, it is pointless
Socrates374 (12:40:15 AM): no its not unreasonable to make peace
HebrewHammer777 (12:41:17 AM): YOU CAN'T MAKE PEACE WITH PEOPLE WHO THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO MURDER YOUR CIVILIANS
HebrewHammer777 (12:41:21 AM): it's not that they don't want peace
HebrewHammer777 (12:41:29 AM): it's that THEY CAN'T HAVE IT WITH HAMAS
HebrewHammer777 (12:41:32 AM): end of story!
Socrates374 (12:41:38 AM): if you make peace, there will no longer be murder
HebrewHammer777 (12:41:59 AM): and how do you propose they "make peace"?
Socrates374 (12:42:07 AM): don't you think the palestinians want peace?
Socrates374 (12:42:22 AM): of course they do, they're the occupied people
HebrewHammer777 (12:42:26 AM): not according to what they say
HebrewHammer777 (12:42:31 AM): and you didn't answer my question
Socrates374 (12:42:46 AM): they don't say they want war, they say they are willing to wage it
HebrewHammer777 (12:42:50 AM): they don't want peace, they want the death of all the Jews
HebrewHammer777 (12:42:53 AM): there's a difference
HebrewHammer777 (12:42:56 AM): now answer my question
Socrates374 (12:43:19 AM): ok, but first
HebrewHammer777 (12:43:36 AM): no "but first"
HebrewHammer777 (12:43:41 AM): it's late and I'm tired
HebrewHammer777 (12:43:45 AM): just answer the damn question
Socrates374 (12:43:47 AM): why do you think the most radical position in all of islam is somehow commonplace?
Socrates374 (12:44:07 AM): it's a complicated question you ask
HebrewHammer777 (12:44:15 AM): because they're taught from their childhood to hate Jews and Christians
HebrewHammer777 (12:44:31 AM): well you keep saying "Israel should make peace" as though they actually had the power to do it
HebrewHammer777 (12:44:35 AM): I want to know how
Socrates374 (12:44:41 AM): there are plenty of palestinian christians
HebrewHammer777 (12:44:58 AM): just answer the question
HebrewHammer777 (12:45:03 AM): I don't care about these other issues
HebrewHammer777 (12:45:07 AM): how do you think Israel makes peace?
Socrates374 (12:45:16 AM): first of all, you gotta make the west bank a continuous piece of land
Socrates374 (12:45:38 AM): that is, make it navigable for the inhabitants
HebrewHammer777 (12:45:40 AM): it would've been under the Oslo plan
HebrewHammer777 (12:45:50 AM): next
Socrates374 (12:45:59 AM): that's israel's choice
Socrates374 (12:46:10 AM): they can make it that way any time they choose
HebrewHammer777 (12:46:14 AM): right, and the Palestinians *chose* not to accept it
Socrates374 (12:46:39 AM): if the check points are gone, the palestinians don't have to acept it
Socrates374 (12:46:47 AM): they just have to go away
Socrates374 (12:46:54 AM): unilaterally
HebrewHammer777 (12:47:20 AM): the checkpoints are necessary so Palestinians like the one today don't massacre Jews
HebrewHammer777 (12:47:39 AM): Israel can't remove them without at least a guarantee that terrorists won't come pouring through
Socrates374 (12:47:55 AM): but what's the point of chutting up the west bnk within itself?
Socrates374 (12:48:05 AM): cutting?
Socrates374 (12:48:12 AM): bank
HebrewHammer777 (12:48:29 AM): preventing terrorists from moving around
Socrates374 (12:48:41 AM): that's called collective punishment
HebrewHammer777 (12:48:50 AM): no
Socrates374 (12:48:57 AM): it creates more problems than it solves
Socrates374 (12:49:07 AM): it must be done away with
HebrewHammer777 (12:49:08 AM): not really
HebrewHammer777 (12:49:24 AM): so how do you propose Israel stop terrorists from crossing the border with bombs?
Socrates374 (12:49:54 AM): I didn't say the check points at the borders had to be removed
Socrates374 (12:50:00 AM): yet, that is
Socrates374 (12:56:07 AM): second, accept hamas as a negotiating partner, and engage in talks with no preconditions.
HebrewHammer777 (12:57:01 AM): a precondition of any talk must be a recognition of the other party's right to exist, wouldn't you agree?
Socrates374 (12:57:20 AM): absolutely not
Socrates374 (12:57:50 AM): the only precondition is to recognize that the other side exists at all
Socrates374 (12:58:17 AM): the fact that it is there, not whether that fact is just
Socrates374 (12:58:36 AM): Israel is not going to disappear and Hamas knows that
HebrewHammer777 (12:58:39 AM): oh really? because the Palestinians don't even have Israel on the maps they teach in school
HebrewHammer777 (12:58:54 AM): Hamas *wants* Israel to disappear though
Socrates374 (12:58:56 AM): they probably can't afford new ones anayway
HebrewHammer777 (12:59:18 AM): okay, now you're just being ridiculous
Socrates374 (12:59:25 AM): yeah, but they don't expect that they will succeed in doing that
Socrates374 (12:59:40 AM): they're really fucking poor!!!
HebrewHammer777 (12:59:43 AM): they fully expect that they'll destroy Israel
HebrewHammer777 (12:59:48 AM): no, they're really fucking rich!
Socrates374 (12:59:51 AM): that's absurd
HebrewHammer777 (12:59:52 AM): Arafat was a billionaire!
HebrewHammer777 (1:00:02 AM): they have BILLIONS of dollars from America and the EU
Socrates374 (1:00:05 AM): he's one man
HebrewHammer777 (1:00:14 AM): it's just that they put it all in the pockets of the thugs and the top
Socrates374 (1:00:15 AM): and he didn't spend that money on maps I bet
HebrewHammer777 (1:00:19 AM): the rest they spend on weapons
Socrates374 (1:00:52 AM): what is the unemployment rate?
HebrewHammer777 (1:00:58 AM): extremely high
Socrates374 (1:00:59 AM): 70%?
Socrates374 (1:01:06 AM): 80%?
HebrewHammer777 (1:01:11 AM): because they care more about murdering Jews than fostering an economy
Socrates374 (1:01:14 AM): something like that
Socrates374 (1:01:26 AM): commerce requires movement
HebrewHammer777 (1:01:28 AM): when Israel gave them farms full of the most advanced equipment in the world
HebrewHammer777 (1:01:31 AM): they burned them down!
Socrates374 (1:01:32 AM): wouldn't you agree?
HebrewHammer777 (1:01:38 AM): and smashed the equipment!
HebrewHammer777 (1:01:57 AM): commerce requires movement... and if they want to move, they have to stop murdering people
HebrewHammer777 (1:02:10 AM): they are reaping what they sow
Socrates374 (1:02:17 AM): that's such a minority in the population
HebrewHammer777 (1:02:33 AM): really?
HebrewHammer777 (1:02:40 AM): that "minority" was democratically elected
Socrates374 (1:02:52 AM): yeah, they could all be killing themselves
Socrates374 (1:03:14 AM): apparently not all of hamas consists of suicide bombers!!!
HebrewHammer777 (1:03:32 AM): no, they just send 17 year olds and mentally challenged kids to do their dirty work
Socrates374 (1:03:46 AM): they are a small part of Hamas even
HebrewHammer777 (1:04:07 AM): why would Arafat blow himself up when he had a few billion bucks to live the high life?
Socrates374 (1:04:14 AM): those kids chose to do it
HebrewHammer777 (1:04:26 AM): even the mentally challenged ones?
Socrates374 (1:04:36 AM): apparently
HebrewHammer777 (1:04:40 AM): wow
HebrewHammer777 (1:04:40 AM): okay
HebrewHammer777 (1:04:42 AM): I'm done
HebrewHammer777 (1:04:44 AM): you're crazy
Socrates374 (1:04:56 AM): mentally challenged people don't make choices?
HebrewHammer777 (1:05:02 AM): you're an idiot
Socrates374 (1:05:13 AM): where did this idea come from?
Socrates374 (1:05:22 AM): I didn't say he made a good choice
HebrewHammer777 (1:05:40 AM): end of story
HebrewHammer777 (1:05:46 AM): there can be no more debate after that
Socrates374 (1:06:00 AM): have you read baghdad burning?
HebrewHammer777 (1:06:01 AM): you just defended sending mentally challenged people to kill themselves and other people
HebrewHammer777 (1:06:05 AM): game over
HebrewHammer777 (1:06:07 AM): you lose
Socrates374 (1:06:08 AM): no I didn't
-It's perfectly acceptable that Hamas supports terrorist attacks on Israeli civilians (in fact, it would be "unreasonable to demand that they condemn these attacks")
-Israel should negotiate with Hamas even though Hamas doesn't recognize Israel's right to exist
-It's perfectly acceptable for Palestinian terrorists to strap bombs on mentally challenged kids to send them to die in order to murder Jews ("mentally challenged people don't make choices?")
I'm presenting the convo unedited, so you'll see that I lose my cool a few times. That's the problem with arguing with idiots; they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. Here's the convo in its full glory:
Socrates374 (11:55:56 PM): hey
Socrates374 (11:59:55 PM): just wondering what you make of this quote: Sami Abu Zuhri, the official spokesman for Hamas, said it was "a natural result of the continued Israeli crimes" against Palestinians. "Our people are in a state of self-defence and they have every right to use all means to defend themselves," he added.
Socrates374 (12:00:25 AM): interesting rhetoric for a terrorist attack
Socrates374 (12:01:32 AM): they're not responsible for it, but they are not willing to create divisions among the Palestinian factions.
Socrates374 (12:01:57 AM): It seems to me that they fear infighting as much as they fear Israel.
Socrates374 (12:02:03 AM): just my interpretation
Socrates374 (12:15:02 AM): and also I can't forget to mention, george ryan the first republican of many yet to come, to go to prison.
HebrewHammer777 (12:28:01 AM): haven't been keeping up w/ the news so much so I don't know who George Ryan is
HebrewHammer777 (12:28:14 AM): but what the terrorist said is disgusting
HebrewHammer777 (12:28:38 AM): "we have the right to murder Jewish civilians while they shop for produce... in self-defense"
Socrates374 (12:30:42 AM): they didn't do it though
Socrates374 (12:30:49 AM): Hamas, that is
HebrewHammer777 (12:30:54 AM): right, Hezbollah did
HebrewHammer777 (12:31:01 AM): but Hamas supported it
Socrates374 (12:31:02 AM): no,
Socrates374 (12:31:06 AM): Islamic jihad
Socrates374 (12:31:19 AM): hamas didn't know about it until it happened
Socrates374 (12:31:42 AM): you know, there are competing factions on the Palestinian side
Socrates374 (12:32:22 AM): somebody wanted to fuck stuff up when hamas was seeking aid abroad
HebrewHammer777 (12:33:42 AM): Hezbollah *is* Islamic Jihad
Socrates374 (12:33:49 AM): because Islamic Jihad knows that we will hold Hamas responsible no matter who sends the bobmber out there
HebrewHammer777 (12:33:54 AM): and yes, I know that the Palestinians aren't united
HebrewHammer777 (12:33:58 AM): neither are the Israelis
Socrates374 (12:34:07 AM): obviously
HebrewHammer777 (12:34:13 AM): but the Palestinian terrorist groups are united on one issue: killing Jews
Socrates374 (12:34:55 AM): dude, perhaps we shouldn't look for excuses to stop a peace settlement from being reached
Socrates374 (12:35:08 AM): you can't hold hamas responsible for this attack
HebrewHammer777 (12:35:35 AM): I'm not holding them responsible for the attack
Socrates374 (12:35:47 AM): good,
HebrewHammer777 (12:35:47 AM): I'm holding them responsible for condoning and supporting the attack
HebrewHammer777 (12:36:02 AM): you can't make peace with someone who supports murdering your civilians
Socrates374 (12:36:23 AM): you know they can't do anything to start a civil war among the palestinian factions
Socrates374 (12:36:36 AM): it's a practical matter
Socrates374 (12:37:33 AM): condemning or trying to "police" Islamic Jihad would only create violence amongst each other, which is what they don't want
Socrates374 (12:37:50 AM): its unreasonable to demand that they condemn these attacks
HebrewHammer777 (12:39:15 AM): you've just reached the point of no return
HebrewHammer777 (12:39:24 AM): "its unreasonable to demand that they condemn these attacks"
HebrewHammer777 (12:39:34 AM): then it's unreasonable for Israel to make peace
Socrates374 (12:39:44 AM): considering their position, it is pointless
Socrates374 (12:40:15 AM): no its not unreasonable to make peace
HebrewHammer777 (12:41:17 AM): YOU CAN'T MAKE PEACE WITH PEOPLE WHO THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO MURDER YOUR CIVILIANS
HebrewHammer777 (12:41:21 AM): it's not that they don't want peace
HebrewHammer777 (12:41:29 AM): it's that THEY CAN'T HAVE IT WITH HAMAS
HebrewHammer777 (12:41:32 AM): end of story!
Socrates374 (12:41:38 AM): if you make peace, there will no longer be murder
HebrewHammer777 (12:41:59 AM): and how do you propose they "make peace"?
Socrates374 (12:42:07 AM): don't you think the palestinians want peace?
Socrates374 (12:42:22 AM): of course they do, they're the occupied people
HebrewHammer777 (12:42:26 AM): not according to what they say
HebrewHammer777 (12:42:31 AM): and you didn't answer my question
Socrates374 (12:42:46 AM): they don't say they want war, they say they are willing to wage it
HebrewHammer777 (12:42:50 AM): they don't want peace, they want the death of all the Jews
HebrewHammer777 (12:42:53 AM): there's a difference
HebrewHammer777 (12:42:56 AM): now answer my question
Socrates374 (12:43:19 AM): ok, but first
HebrewHammer777 (12:43:36 AM): no "but first"
HebrewHammer777 (12:43:41 AM): it's late and I'm tired
HebrewHammer777 (12:43:45 AM): just answer the damn question
Socrates374 (12:43:47 AM): why do you think the most radical position in all of islam is somehow commonplace?
Socrates374 (12:44:07 AM): it's a complicated question you ask
HebrewHammer777 (12:44:15 AM): because they're taught from their childhood to hate Jews and Christians
HebrewHammer777 (12:44:31 AM): well you keep saying "Israel should make peace" as though they actually had the power to do it
HebrewHammer777 (12:44:35 AM): I want to know how
Socrates374 (12:44:41 AM): there are plenty of palestinian christians
HebrewHammer777 (12:44:58 AM): just answer the question
HebrewHammer777 (12:45:03 AM): I don't care about these other issues
HebrewHammer777 (12:45:07 AM): how do you think Israel makes peace?
Socrates374 (12:45:16 AM): first of all, you gotta make the west bank a continuous piece of land
Socrates374 (12:45:38 AM): that is, make it navigable for the inhabitants
HebrewHammer777 (12:45:40 AM): it would've been under the Oslo plan
HebrewHammer777 (12:45:50 AM): next
Socrates374 (12:45:59 AM): that's israel's choice
Socrates374 (12:46:10 AM): they can make it that way any time they choose
HebrewHammer777 (12:46:14 AM): right, and the Palestinians *chose* not to accept it
Socrates374 (12:46:39 AM): if the check points are gone, the palestinians don't have to acept it
Socrates374 (12:46:47 AM): they just have to go away
Socrates374 (12:46:54 AM): unilaterally
HebrewHammer777 (12:47:20 AM): the checkpoints are necessary so Palestinians like the one today don't massacre Jews
HebrewHammer777 (12:47:39 AM): Israel can't remove them without at least a guarantee that terrorists won't come pouring through
Socrates374 (12:47:55 AM): but what's the point of chutting up the west bnk within itself?
Socrates374 (12:48:05 AM): cutting?
Socrates374 (12:48:12 AM): bank
HebrewHammer777 (12:48:29 AM): preventing terrorists from moving around
Socrates374 (12:48:41 AM): that's called collective punishment
HebrewHammer777 (12:48:50 AM): no
Socrates374 (12:48:57 AM): it creates more problems than it solves
Socrates374 (12:49:07 AM): it must be done away with
HebrewHammer777 (12:49:08 AM): not really
HebrewHammer777 (12:49:24 AM): so how do you propose Israel stop terrorists from crossing the border with bombs?
Socrates374 (12:49:54 AM): I didn't say the check points at the borders had to be removed
Socrates374 (12:50:00 AM): yet, that is
Socrates374 (12:56:07 AM): second, accept hamas as a negotiating partner, and engage in talks with no preconditions.
HebrewHammer777 (12:57:01 AM): a precondition of any talk must be a recognition of the other party's right to exist, wouldn't you agree?
Socrates374 (12:57:20 AM): absolutely not
Socrates374 (12:57:50 AM): the only precondition is to recognize that the other side exists at all
Socrates374 (12:58:17 AM): the fact that it is there, not whether that fact is just
Socrates374 (12:58:36 AM): Israel is not going to disappear and Hamas knows that
HebrewHammer777 (12:58:39 AM): oh really? because the Palestinians don't even have Israel on the maps they teach in school
HebrewHammer777 (12:58:54 AM): Hamas *wants* Israel to disappear though
Socrates374 (12:58:56 AM): they probably can't afford new ones anayway
HebrewHammer777 (12:59:18 AM): okay, now you're just being ridiculous
Socrates374 (12:59:25 AM): yeah, but they don't expect that they will succeed in doing that
Socrates374 (12:59:40 AM): they're really fucking poor!!!
HebrewHammer777 (12:59:43 AM): they fully expect that they'll destroy Israel
HebrewHammer777 (12:59:48 AM): no, they're really fucking rich!
Socrates374 (12:59:51 AM): that's absurd
HebrewHammer777 (12:59:52 AM): Arafat was a billionaire!
HebrewHammer777 (1:00:02 AM): they have BILLIONS of dollars from America and the EU
Socrates374 (1:00:05 AM): he's one man
HebrewHammer777 (1:00:14 AM): it's just that they put it all in the pockets of the thugs and the top
Socrates374 (1:00:15 AM): and he didn't spend that money on maps I bet
HebrewHammer777 (1:00:19 AM): the rest they spend on weapons
Socrates374 (1:00:52 AM): what is the unemployment rate?
HebrewHammer777 (1:00:58 AM): extremely high
Socrates374 (1:00:59 AM): 70%?
Socrates374 (1:01:06 AM): 80%?
HebrewHammer777 (1:01:11 AM): because they care more about murdering Jews than fostering an economy
Socrates374 (1:01:14 AM): something like that
Socrates374 (1:01:26 AM): commerce requires movement
HebrewHammer777 (1:01:28 AM): when Israel gave them farms full of the most advanced equipment in the world
HebrewHammer777 (1:01:31 AM): they burned them down!
Socrates374 (1:01:32 AM): wouldn't you agree?
HebrewHammer777 (1:01:38 AM): and smashed the equipment!
HebrewHammer777 (1:01:57 AM): commerce requires movement... and if they want to move, they have to stop murdering people
HebrewHammer777 (1:02:10 AM): they are reaping what they sow
Socrates374 (1:02:17 AM): that's such a minority in the population
HebrewHammer777 (1:02:33 AM): really?
HebrewHammer777 (1:02:40 AM): that "minority" was democratically elected
Socrates374 (1:02:52 AM): yeah, they could all be killing themselves
Socrates374 (1:03:14 AM): apparently not all of hamas consists of suicide bombers!!!
HebrewHammer777 (1:03:32 AM): no, they just send 17 year olds and mentally challenged kids to do their dirty work
Socrates374 (1:03:46 AM): they are a small part of Hamas even
HebrewHammer777 (1:04:07 AM): why would Arafat blow himself up when he had a few billion bucks to live the high life?
Socrates374 (1:04:14 AM): those kids chose to do it
HebrewHammer777 (1:04:26 AM): even the mentally challenged ones?
Socrates374 (1:04:36 AM): apparently
HebrewHammer777 (1:04:40 AM): wow
HebrewHammer777 (1:04:40 AM): okay
HebrewHammer777 (1:04:42 AM): I'm done
HebrewHammer777 (1:04:44 AM): you're crazy
Socrates374 (1:04:56 AM): mentally challenged people don't make choices?
HebrewHammer777 (1:05:02 AM): you're an idiot
Socrates374 (1:05:13 AM): where did this idea come from?
Socrates374 (1:05:22 AM): I didn't say he made a good choice
HebrewHammer777 (1:05:40 AM): end of story
HebrewHammer777 (1:05:46 AM): there can be no more debate after that
Socrates374 (1:06:00 AM): have you read baghdad burning?
HebrewHammer777 (1:06:01 AM): you just defended sending mentally challenged people to kill themselves and other people
HebrewHammer777 (1:06:05 AM): game over
HebrewHammer777 (1:06:07 AM): you lose
Socrates374 (1:06:08 AM): no I didn't