All I can say is that I have never watched an episode of Atlantis, but keep wanting to buy the DVDs as I love Gateverse stuff. (One of my favorite movies is the original Stargate).
Strong, brainy females are my favorite type of characters, too. I love the physical ones, but the brainy ones always steal my heart.
I think you'd really enjoy Elizabeth Weir. If you wait for a good sale, you can generally get Atlantis DVDs pretty cheap. Though if you're looking for, ahem, alternate sources, e-mail me.
But yes! You should watch Atlantis. There's a lot less to have to get through than in SG-1, though SG-1 has great female characters too. (On that one, you have Sam and Janet both, not to mention Vala.)
You don't have to see the romance, really, to see a connection, I think, whether that be as co-workers, friends, and equals. Or as all that plus in a romantic sense, because, to me, the idea that romance precludes (or excludes) any other kind of a connection is nuts. So I'm all good with people not seeing the romance there.
In fact, I'm sure you're not surprised to hear that you're one of the people whom I was thinking of as a 'not a 'shipper for these two, but I think she'll like this' when I was typing this up. :)
I'm afraid to say that I've read some godawful John/Rodney fics. Godawful. With horrible characterization. (I've read some stories in the pairing, though I don't particularly ship those two.) I tend to think those - and the bad Elizabeth/John ones, not to mention others - fall under the category of 'are you even watching the same show as me?' Which, clearly, they're not.
I'm afraid this is the mildest sort of rant. I think I save the worst of my vitriol for the bad femslashers. It's such a rare category
( ... )
Yes, definitely. It's not something people talk about a lot these days, but one of the hallmarks of early seasons was Elizabeth's generally uncontested leadership and John's respect for her as a human being as well as a leader -- that he goes against her orders in Hot Zone confirms rather than negates this his attitude: It sticks out because it's the exception to the rule.Thank you. Yes. I agree completely
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YEP. You pretty much nailed my favorite scene in the very first episode. Where John and Elizabeth HAVE A HUGE FIGHT but listen to the other person and make the best decision they can. *hugs them*
THEY'RE GROWNUPS. AND THEY TREAT EACH OTHER LIKE IT. OMGYES.
I think that's one of the things I like the most about Elizabeth and John. Regardless of anything else, they act like ADULTS about everything. There's none of this soap opera drivel where things would be resolved if only they talked about things and brought their feelings out in the open, because, guess what? They're already there!
That's one of the things I fear with this "younger target demographic" thing with SGU. I fear that we'll lose the sense of emotional maturity that we get in our Gateverse characters. *squishes them*
THEY DO. They are adults and speak to each other as adults! Moreover, the whole first season was them coming to a place where they trusted the other person. It WASN'T instant, and that was fascinating to me. (Also, it was a huge theme in most of the fic I wrote in that era.)
Hell, the whole madeup fanon that LR and I had was based on them talking to each other a lot. Mostly about their past sexual histories, but also families and lives and mocking the hell out of each other and others. The idea of these two ADULT PEOPLE being friends was just so... *makes flail hands*
And the thing that amuses the hell out of me is that most of the early stuff I wrote (and, weirdly, the later stuff too) is friendship. I mean, there's the hint of maybe more, but it's 'maybe more' in the same way that you stick two attractive, unattached people in the same room.
I LOVE the lack of soap opera, and that by the end of it, they're two people who do love and trust each other a lot. Because there's care and FRIENDSHIP.
You listed pretty much all of my reasons why I love Elizabeth, John and the awesome pairing they are. They're a couple that doesn't need "I love you's" (though I wouldn'0t be against seeing/hearing it, but heh, I doubt we'd see that on the show); and it's because of the relationship of equals they share and the fact that they listen to each other.
Thank you for this, it's a wonderful post. I needed to read something like this :)
Oh, I'm okay with not seeing it on the show. They screwed up hard when they tried to do a canon pairing with Sam/Jack, and while I love Sam/Jack, I don't like how it had a total lack of resolution. (It's more complicated than that, of course, but this is the simplified version that's going to fit into the comment limit.)
and it's because of the relationship of equals they share and the fact that they listen to each other.
Yes. Exactly! It's hard to have a relationship (romantic or not) with that much equality, and it's nice to see two characters who not only work at that, but whom we see developing it.
Thank you for this, it's a wonderful post. I needed to read something like this :)
Glad to hear my irritation was worthwhile for you. ;)
Hehe, I wish more people had an intelligent way of expressing their irritation. *g*
Also, I feel Gateverse writers are not up to writing sensible romance. I keep hearing things about certain love triangle - I'm so glad I'm not watching the show (and apparently they're not cool enough to make it a happy treesome, LOL).
John/Elizabeth works partially because it's sort of under the radar. The relationship, no matter how you choose or prefer to interpret it, simply makes sense. I love how, in some ways, she can be the stronger one of the two. I totally don't see John as an alpha male either (maybe in bed - but definitely not every time? That's another topic - I need to do another smut discussion, when my muse decides to come out of the hiding); I love the fact that he is capable of listening. Okay, I got lost... my point was, while we had them on screen, their interaction made the show better.
Hehe, I wish more people had an intelligent way of expressing their irritation. *g*
The more irritated I get, the more long-winded and voluble I become. It's a little scary.
Love triangle? I don't want to know. No, no, there's a reason I stopped paying attention to canon.
I don't even see John as all that dominant in bed, not unless he's still feeling overprotective, or just after a dangerous situation, and then it's clearly the exception, and an emotional reaction to events, not a need to dominate others.
Aw, your poor muse. *lures with chocolate* Maybe it'll come back if you don't pressure it?
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Strong, brainy females are my favorite type of characters, too. I love the physical ones, but the brainy ones always steal my heart.
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But yes! You should watch Atlantis. There's a lot less to have to get through than in SG-1, though SG-1 has great female characters too. (On that one, you have Sam and Janet both, not to mention Vala.)
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In fact, I'm sure you're not surprised to hear that you're one of the people whom I was thinking of as a 'not a 'shipper for these two, but I think she'll like this' when I was typing this up. :)
I'm afraid to say that I've read some godawful John/Rodney fics. Godawful. With horrible characterization. (I've read some stories in the pairing, though I don't particularly ship those two.) I tend to think those - and the bad Elizabeth/John ones, not to mention others - fall under the category of 'are you even watching the same show as me?' Which, clearly, they're not.
I'm afraid this is the mildest sort of rant. I think I save the worst of my vitriol for the bad femslashers. It's such a rare category ( ... )
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I think that's one of the things I like the most about Elizabeth and John. Regardless of anything else, they act like ADULTS about everything. There's none of this soap opera drivel where things would be resolved if only they talked about things and brought their feelings out in the open, because, guess what? They're already there!
That's one of the things I fear with this "younger target demographic" thing with SGU. I fear that we'll lose the sense of emotional maturity that we get in our Gateverse characters. *squishes them*
Reply
Hell, the whole madeup fanon that LR and I had was based on them talking to each other a lot. Mostly about their past sexual histories, but also families and lives and mocking the hell out of each other and others. The idea of these two ADULT PEOPLE being friends was just so... *makes flail hands*
And the thing that amuses the hell out of me is that most of the early stuff I wrote (and, weirdly, the later stuff too) is friendship. I mean, there's the hint of maybe more, but it's 'maybe more' in the same way that you stick two attractive, unattached people in the same room.
I LOVE the lack of soap opera, and that by the end of it, they're two people who do love and trust each other a lot. Because there's care and FRIENDSHIP.
*hugs them*
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Thank you for this, it's a wonderful post. I needed to read something like this :)
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and it's because of the relationship of equals they share and the fact that they listen to each other.
Yes. Exactly! It's hard to have a relationship (romantic or not) with that much equality, and it's nice to see two characters who not only work at that, but whom we see developing it.
Thank you for this, it's a wonderful post. I needed to read something like this :)
Glad to hear my irritation was worthwhile for you. ;)
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Also, I feel Gateverse writers are not up to writing sensible romance. I keep hearing things about certain love triangle - I'm so glad I'm not watching the show (and apparently they're not cool enough to make it a happy treesome, LOL).
John/Elizabeth works partially because it's sort of under the radar. The relationship, no matter how you choose or prefer to interpret it, simply makes sense. I love how, in some ways, she can be the stronger one of the two. I totally don't see John as an alpha male either (maybe in bed - but definitely not every time? That's another topic - I need to do another smut discussion, when my muse decides to come out of the hiding); I love the fact that he is capable of listening. Okay, I got lost... my point was, while we had them on screen, their interaction made the show better.
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The more irritated I get, the more long-winded and voluble I become. It's a little scary.
Love triangle? I don't want to know. No, no, there's a reason I stopped paying attention to canon.
I don't even see John as all that dominant in bed, not unless he's still feeling overprotective, or just after a dangerous situation, and then it's clearly the exception, and an emotional reaction to events, not a need to dominate others.
Aw, your poor muse. *lures with chocolate* Maybe it'll come back if you don't pressure it?
Reply
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