You don't have to see the romance, really, to see a connection, I think, whether that be as co-workers, friends, and equals. Or as all that plus in a romantic sense, because, to me, the idea that romance precludes (or excludes) any other kind of a connection is nuts. So I'm all good with people not seeing the romance there.
In fact, I'm sure you're not surprised to hear that you're one of the people whom I was thinking of as a 'not a 'shipper for these two, but I think she'll like this' when I was typing this up. :)
I'm afraid to say that I've read some godawful John/Rodney fics. Godawful. With horrible characterization. (I've read some stories in the pairing, though I don't particularly ship those two.) I tend to think those - and the bad Elizabeth/John ones, not to mention others - fall under the category of 'are you even watching the same show as me?' Which, clearly, they're not.
I'm afraid this is the mildest sort of rant. I think I save the worst of my vitriol for the bad femslashers. It's such a rare category anyway that I get especially irksome when there's godawful characterization. Especially when they're turned into caricature lesbians. I mean, FFS. Put a little thought into it, why don't you?
Yes, definitely. It's not something people talk about a lot these days, but one of the hallmarks of early seasons was Elizabeth's generally uncontested leadership and John's respect for her as a human being as well as a leader -- that he goes against her orders in Hot Zone confirms rather than negates this his attitude: It sticks out because it's the exception to the rule.
Thank you. Yes. I agree completely.
One of the reasons I dislike Kavanagh isn't because he questions Elizabeth. Teyla and John both do that plenty, and you don't see me hating either of them. I feel that he's a character that's been portrayed as very concerned with his own well-being to the detriment of others.
In 38 Minutes, he behaved as if raising the shield was the only option. I agree that it should've been pointed out, but he behaved like it was the best and only possible thing to do. Again, in Critical Mass, he seems to consider that the well-being of the Daedalus - which he's on - gives them only one possible option.
Not to mention there's the fact that he has the gall to, in the middle of the control tower, accuse Elizabeth of castrating him. (Hi, sexual harassment and attempt to exercise male privilege much?) He took the time from trying to save the lives of six people because he was embarrased that she didn't agree with him? And then he tried to bully her verbally into acquiescing with him? Excuse me? No.
John and Elizabeth had their disagreements, by and large, in private. Even in Hot Zone, the only witnesses were Teyla, Bates, and Grodin, and they were trusted members of the expedition.
I'm pointing all of this out not to trash Kavanagh (though I do dislike him, but I also hope I've given rational reasons why), but to use him and his disagreements as a contrast with John and his disagreements with Elizabeth. (I should point out that I haven't seen the fourth season ep with Kavanagh.)
Oh yeah, there's bad stuff out there. Bad. Stuff. *shudder* It's safe to say I can enjoy a story that fulfills certain criteria even if the characterisation isn't stellar where you would have long hit the little "X" up there, but it's safe to say we're always cutting stories featuring pairings we like some slack.
I feel your pain. I have some stories for my pairings that I've cut more than a little slack to. *facepalm* It's slightly embarrassing, except for the fact that we all do it. I hope I didn't come across as trashing John/Rodney! There are also some great fics out there that I've read, so I didn't mean to imply that they're universally awful. I was trying to sympathize with bad fic in your pairing.
I KNOW. I did actually find some (Allison)Cameron/Thirteen fic, but most of it made me WEEP, Havoc.
I. Wow. Okay, I'm a having a bad femslasher moment. Who's Thirteen? *sheepish*
In fact, I'm sure you're not surprised to hear that you're one of the people whom I was thinking of as a 'not a 'shipper for these two, but I think she'll like this' when I was typing this up. :)
I'm afraid to say that I've read some godawful John/Rodney fics. Godawful. With horrible characterization. (I've read some stories in the pairing, though I don't particularly ship those two.) I tend to think those - and the bad Elizabeth/John ones, not to mention others - fall under the category of 'are you even watching the same show as me?' Which, clearly, they're not.
I'm afraid this is the mildest sort of rant. I think I save the worst of my vitriol for the bad femslashers. It's such a rare category anyway that I get especially irksome when there's godawful characterization. Especially when they're turned into caricature lesbians. I mean, FFS. Put a little thought into it, why don't you?
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Thank you. Yes. I agree completely.
One of the reasons I dislike Kavanagh isn't because he questions Elizabeth. Teyla and John both do that plenty, and you don't see me hating either of them. I feel that he's a character that's been portrayed as very concerned with his own well-being to the detriment of others.
In 38 Minutes, he behaved as if raising the shield was the only option. I agree that it should've been pointed out, but he behaved like it was the best and only possible thing to do. Again, in Critical Mass, he seems to consider that the well-being of the Daedalus - which he's on - gives them only one possible option.
Not to mention there's the fact that he has the gall to, in the middle of the control tower, accuse Elizabeth of castrating him. (Hi, sexual harassment and attempt to exercise male privilege much?) He took the time from trying to save the lives of six people because he was embarrased that she didn't agree with him? And then he tried to bully her verbally into acquiescing with him? Excuse me? No.
John and Elizabeth had their disagreements, by and large, in private. Even in Hot Zone, the only witnesses were Teyla, Bates, and Grodin, and they were trusted members of the expedition.
I'm pointing all of this out not to trash Kavanagh (though I do dislike him, but I also hope I've given rational reasons why), but to use him and his disagreements as a contrast with John and his disagreements with Elizabeth. (I should point out that I haven't seen the fourth season ep with Kavanagh.)
Oh yeah, there's bad stuff out there. Bad. Stuff. *shudder* It's safe to say I can enjoy a story that fulfills certain criteria even if the characterisation isn't stellar where you would have long hit the little "X" up there, but it's safe to say we're always cutting stories featuring pairings we like some slack.
I feel your pain. I have some stories for my pairings that I've cut more than a little slack to. *facepalm* It's slightly embarrassing, except for the fact that we all do it. I hope I didn't come across as trashing John/Rodney! There are also some great fics out there that I've read, so I didn't mean to imply that they're universally awful. I was trying to sympathize with bad fic in your pairing.
I KNOW. I did actually find some (Allison)Cameron/Thirteen fic, but most of it made me WEEP, Havoc.
I. Wow. Okay, I'm a having a bad femslasher moment. Who's Thirteen? *sheepish*
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