Harry Potter Discussion!!!
Yes, you are seeing it right, two posts in two days! Why do I feel the need to post? 'Cause I want to defend my position from my earlier post, on the Harry x Hermione boat. I intend for this post to be a platform for discussion; I don't intend to post again 'til discussion dies down (or doesn't start).
~~~SPOILER WARNING~~~
Read on if you are up to date with the Harry Potter universe. If you are not current up to Order of the Phoenix, then reading / participating in this discussion will 'cause you to learn details that you might not want revealed to you. As of my topic starter, it is not necessary for you to be up to date on the Half-Blood Prince, I don't make reference to it. However, someone else might.
~~~/SPOILER WARNING~~~
Argument for the Ron x Hermione boat
There is obvious tension between Ron and Hermione at the end of Goblet of Fire. JK Rowling readily admits this: "Yes, something's "going on," but Ron doesn't realize it yet. Typical boy." and made the comment, "Harry and Hermione are very platonic friends. But I won't answer for anyone else. Nudge, nudge, wink, wink."
I do believe that there is tension between Ron and Hermione. And I think it's obvious that Ron does / will like Hermione. And she may have feelings back. But it will never work out, they are not as close as Harry and Hermione. I don't even think they are as close as Harry and Ron. So at best, I see a Harry x Hermione romance as a catalyst for strained relations within the trio.
Argument for the Harry x Ginny boat
There really isn't too much evidence supporting this if you really think about it. Harry starts to look at Ginny in a new light yes. And Ginny has "given up" on Harry, which is a classic set-up. And in OotP it looks like Ron approves of a relationship between Harry and Ginny. But that's about it. That's not much for the "main romantic interest" for the hero of the story.
Argument for the Harry x Hermoine boat
Starting in PoA, and moving through GoF and OotP, Harry and Hermione are starting to play much bigger roles than Ron. From an essay of a Harry x Hermoine shipper, "Harry and Hermione share in the key moments of the events depicted in OP as a pair. It is Harry and Hermione together who accompany Hagrid to the Forest to meet Grawp (604-618). It is Harry and Hermione together who steal into Umbridge's office to check on Sirius' whereabouts (651-653). It is Harry and Hermione together who accompany Umbridge into the Forest (660)." "they play off each other in turn, saving each other repeatedly: Hermione saves Harry with the Stupefy hex (694); Harry launches himself across the floor to prevent the Killing Curse from hitting Hermione (696); Hermione comes to Harry's aid once again (696-97); and then the two of them work together with Silencio and Petrificus Totalus (698) before Hermione falls out of action at last." "These are all choices made deliberately by Rowling; in each case, Ron could have been included in the general scene without disruption of the plot or narrative. Instead, Rowling has chosen to keep Ron on the sidelines during integral events in OP, while pushing Harry and Hermione front and center." At the end of HBP, there are a total of 4 people who can say Voldemort's name: Dumbledore, Lupin, Harry, and Hermione. Both of their respective love interests (Cho and Krum) have been jealous of their relationship and have inferred an underlying romantic attachment between Harry and Hermione. Siting the essay again, "Harry and Hermione have a rich history, and though that history is shared with Ron, select memories Harry has of Hermione specifically are highlighted to the reader in OP. We learn, for example, that the image of Hermione in the hospital wing when the Polyjuice Potion had gone awry is one of Harry's "most feared memories." And, thinking about Hermione can bring a smile to Harry's face. In his first OWL exam, Harry spies Hermione a few rows ahead of him and fondly recalls the night in which he and Hermione became friends, the night he and Ron knocked out the Troll to save her (628)." "They stick up for each other with particular ferocity in OP. Hermione reacts quite sharply indeed to Draco's query of how Harry felt being "second-best" to Ron ("Shut up!" and "Get out!"): even Draco recognizes that he may have "hit a nerve" with her (175-176)." "Hermione grabs or clings to Harry's arm with a fair bit of frequency (323, 358, 614, 668, 679). Harry is described as being very physically protective of her as well. He "seizes her and pulls her behind a tree" (614) when Grawp takes a swipe at her. In the clash between Umbridge and the centaurs, Harry grabs Hermione and pulls her to the ground (665). In the Department of Mysteries when Harry needs to signal the others to smash the shelves, it is Hermione's foot that he finds (692-93). In the ensuing crash, Harry grabs Hermione's robes and drags her forwards: this has all the elements of "save one thing from a burning building" mentality on Harry's part (694). When he thinks Hermione may be dead, there is a "whine of panic" inside Harry's head (699). Learning that she is still alive, Harry feels such a "powerful wave of relief" that he feels light-headed for a moment (700)."
There are a lot of good points on Mugglenet.com
1) This is Harry's story: It's a simple fact but an important one when you consider the romantic options in the books. Wat would be the point of the main romance in the HP series NOT involving Harry? What is the point of Ron and Hermione getting together? Should Harry be paired with Ginny, the main romance of the series would STILL, in effect, be Ron/Hermione. It would have to be because it would involve two members of the trio - the key unit of the books. We would have spent at least five or six books watching Hermione as the undoubted female lead, and five or six books feeling emotionally attached to the trio characters. The only book we know of where Ginny has a role of any significance is OoTP, and even then she is well and truly overshadowed by Hermione. Now really - after all this time spent with the trio characters, would people realistically care more for the pairing of Harry/Ginny than they would for Ron/Hermione? They wouldn't, and that's important because the obvious question arising from that is: why would JKR want a romance involving her hero and main character overshadowed by a romance involving his friends?
2) Series Structure: This is a book series. JKR has to believably show why Harry would prefer Ginny to Hermione. A character's romantic partner should believably be the most significant person to them. Hermione is indisputably the most significant female friend Harry has. Having Hermione as the female lead for three quarters of the series and then having her deposed as the most significant female in Harry's life with one or two books to go poses the problem of how can there be two female leads? At the moment, Ginny is clearly a supporting character. The rise of a romantic partner would have to correspond to a lessening of Hermione's influence on Harry and importance to him and the plot. A final, series-ending romance for Harry should be more meaningful, especially since love and Harry's heart appear to be central to the plot.
3) Scenes that don't make sense from the Ron/Hermione viewpoint:
a) Why the hugely extended hug from Hermione to Harry at 12 Grimmauld Place?
So the boy has been in danger and threatened with expulsion. But at the time they meet up, all three are aware he's okay and the only emotion all three are experiencing is pleasure at seeing each other again. Hermione isn't grabbing Harry out of great relief from fear for him. JKR is emphasizing the joy Hermione feels at this meeting. Why? The hug nearly knocks Harry flat, Hermione rambles uncontrollably and Ron has to intervene to actually end the hug.
b) Why isn't Hermione overjoyed at Ron being made prefect?
This scene is completely illogical from the Ron/Hermione viewpoint. Think about it: Ron, supposedly Hermione's crush, has gained an honor - a big event for someone usually overshadowed by Harry. Yet Hermione rushes in expecting Harry to have received the badge and shrieks with joy when she thinks Harry has been made prefect. In the moments after Hermione bursts in, she is completely oblivious to Ron's feelings. Say Harry HAD been made prefect, shouldn't she have spared a thought for Ron's disappointment, seeing as he's her crush? Shouldn't she have felt disappointed she wouldn't be getting to spend time with Ron as prefects together?
c) Why does Hermione suddenly appear to lose interest in Quidditch as soon as Harry is off the team? And why is she so underwhelmed at Ron making the team? A girl who, in PS, was watching Harry play so intently she didn't notice Ron was fighting Malfoy under her chair. When Ron makes the Quidditch team, Hermione falls asleep and only sticks around out of politeness. She goes with Harry to find out what Hagrid wants instead of watching Ron play in the Quidditch final, when Harry could easily have gone on his own. Neither of them even considers that possibility.
g) Nothing happened between Ron/Hermione while they were spending time together over summer.
- they said nothing happened
- Ron said Hermione was "going spare" over Harry
- there were no embarrassed looks when Harry turned up
- they didn't discuss their relationship (if they had, why is Ron surprised when he finds out later that Hermione is in touch with Viktor?)
5) Harry's feelings: Harry has a dream where Cho, his crush, turns into Hermione. He spends a lot of time staring at Hermione in OoTP. There are constant descriptions of what she's doing. Noticeably, for the first time there are descriptions of her "eyes shining" and "face glowing." He sticks up for Hermione to his crush, Cho - even after Cho has made it clear she's suspicious and jealous of Harry's closeness to Hermione. Ginny is given a literary makeover and Harry still doesn't show any attraction to her.
CONCLUSION
I forsee an end relationship with Harry and Hermione. Everyone has an emotional bond with Hermione, and her relationship is the most crucial. No relationship would be bigger than her's. It being Harry's story, it makes sense for them to end up together. Harry's story is directly dependant upon Hermione's feelings.
However, read that carefully. Hermione's relationship is the most important one in the story. And it will have a drastic effect on Harry. Which means it doesn't necessarily mean it will be so. If Ron and Hermione end up together, and it breaks Harry's heart, well then that situation follows my argument too. In the end though, Hermione's is paramount to the story; therefore, if Harry doesn't end up with her, then he won't end up with anyone. Any other relationship Harry could have would be overshadowed by Hermione's.
Whew, that was interesting. I hope some people feel like debating this, and I'm not wasting my time. Though this is a long post, it's kinda important to see my position in order to discuss it with me.
Time to see who actually cares enough about it.
Note: mugglenet.com is where I pulled a lot of my information. It would be useful if you looked at and , they are what finally changed my mind. (And they might be easier to read than my post)
~~~SPOILER WARNING~~~
Read on if you are up to date with the Harry Potter universe. If you are not current up to Order of the Phoenix, then reading / participating in this discussion will 'cause you to learn details that you might not want revealed to you. As of my topic starter, it is not necessary for you to be up to date on the Half-Blood Prince, I don't make reference to it. However, someone else might.
~~~/SPOILER WARNING~~~
Argument for the Ron x Hermione boat
There is obvious tension between Ron and Hermione at the end of Goblet of Fire. JK Rowling readily admits this: "Yes, something's "going on," but Ron doesn't realize it yet. Typical boy." and made the comment, "Harry and Hermione are very platonic friends. But I won't answer for anyone else. Nudge, nudge, wink, wink."
I do believe that there is tension between Ron and Hermione. And I think it's obvious that Ron does / will like Hermione. And she may have feelings back. But it will never work out, they are not as close as Harry and Hermione. I don't even think they are as close as Harry and Ron. So at best, I see a Harry x Hermione romance as a catalyst for strained relations within the trio.
Argument for the Harry x Ginny boat
There really isn't too much evidence supporting this if you really think about it. Harry starts to look at Ginny in a new light yes. And Ginny has "given up" on Harry, which is a classic set-up. And in OotP it looks like Ron approves of a relationship between Harry and Ginny. But that's about it. That's not much for the "main romantic interest" for the hero of the story.
Argument for the Harry x Hermoine boat
Starting in PoA, and moving through GoF and OotP, Harry and Hermione are starting to play much bigger roles than Ron. From an essay of a Harry x Hermoine shipper, "Harry and Hermione share in the key moments of the events depicted in OP as a pair. It is Harry and Hermione together who accompany Hagrid to the Forest to meet Grawp (604-618). It is Harry and Hermione together who steal into Umbridge's office to check on Sirius' whereabouts (651-653). It is Harry and Hermione together who accompany Umbridge into the Forest (660)." "they play off each other in turn, saving each other repeatedly: Hermione saves Harry with the Stupefy hex (694); Harry launches himself across the floor to prevent the Killing Curse from hitting Hermione (696); Hermione comes to Harry's aid once again (696-97); and then the two of them work together with Silencio and Petrificus Totalus (698) before Hermione falls out of action at last." "These are all choices made deliberately by Rowling; in each case, Ron could have been included in the general scene without disruption of the plot or narrative. Instead, Rowling has chosen to keep Ron on the sidelines during integral events in OP, while pushing Harry and Hermione front and center." At the end of HBP, there are a total of 4 people who can say Voldemort's name: Dumbledore, Lupin, Harry, and Hermione. Both of their respective love interests (Cho and Krum) have been jealous of their relationship and have inferred an underlying romantic attachment between Harry and Hermione. Siting the essay again, "Harry and Hermione have a rich history, and though that history is shared with Ron, select memories Harry has of Hermione specifically are highlighted to the reader in OP. We learn, for example, that the image of Hermione in the hospital wing when the Polyjuice Potion had gone awry is one of Harry's "most feared memories." And, thinking about Hermione can bring a smile to Harry's face. In his first OWL exam, Harry spies Hermione a few rows ahead of him and fondly recalls the night in which he and Hermione became friends, the night he and Ron knocked out the Troll to save her (628)." "They stick up for each other with particular ferocity in OP. Hermione reacts quite sharply indeed to Draco's query of how Harry felt being "second-best" to Ron ("Shut up!" and "Get out!"): even Draco recognizes that he may have "hit a nerve" with her (175-176)." "Hermione grabs or clings to Harry's arm with a fair bit of frequency (323, 358, 614, 668, 679). Harry is described as being very physically protective of her as well. He "seizes her and pulls her behind a tree" (614) when Grawp takes a swipe at her. In the clash between Umbridge and the centaurs, Harry grabs Hermione and pulls her to the ground (665). In the Department of Mysteries when Harry needs to signal the others to smash the shelves, it is Hermione's foot that he finds (692-93). In the ensuing crash, Harry grabs Hermione's robes and drags her forwards: this has all the elements of "save one thing from a burning building" mentality on Harry's part (694). When he thinks Hermione may be dead, there is a "whine of panic" inside Harry's head (699). Learning that she is still alive, Harry feels such a "powerful wave of relief" that he feels light-headed for a moment (700)."
There are a lot of good points on Mugglenet.com
1) This is Harry's story: It's a simple fact but an important one when you consider the romantic options in the books. Wat would be the point of the main romance in the HP series NOT involving Harry? What is the point of Ron and Hermione getting together? Should Harry be paired with Ginny, the main romance of the series would STILL, in effect, be Ron/Hermione. It would have to be because it would involve two members of the trio - the key unit of the books. We would have spent at least five or six books watching Hermione as the undoubted female lead, and five or six books feeling emotionally attached to the trio characters. The only book we know of where Ginny has a role of any significance is OoTP, and even then she is well and truly overshadowed by Hermione. Now really - after all this time spent with the trio characters, would people realistically care more for the pairing of Harry/Ginny than they would for Ron/Hermione? They wouldn't, and that's important because the obvious question arising from that is: why would JKR want a romance involving her hero and main character overshadowed by a romance involving his friends?
2) Series Structure: This is a book series. JKR has to believably show why Harry would prefer Ginny to Hermione. A character's romantic partner should believably be the most significant person to them. Hermione is indisputably the most significant female friend Harry has. Having Hermione as the female lead for three quarters of the series and then having her deposed as the most significant female in Harry's life with one or two books to go poses the problem of how can there be two female leads? At the moment, Ginny is clearly a supporting character. The rise of a romantic partner would have to correspond to a lessening of Hermione's influence on Harry and importance to him and the plot. A final, series-ending romance for Harry should be more meaningful, especially since love and Harry's heart appear to be central to the plot.
3) Scenes that don't make sense from the Ron/Hermione viewpoint:
a) Why the hugely extended hug from Hermione to Harry at 12 Grimmauld Place?
So the boy has been in danger and threatened with expulsion. But at the time they meet up, all three are aware he's okay and the only emotion all three are experiencing is pleasure at seeing each other again. Hermione isn't grabbing Harry out of great relief from fear for him. JKR is emphasizing the joy Hermione feels at this meeting. Why? The hug nearly knocks Harry flat, Hermione rambles uncontrollably and Ron has to intervene to actually end the hug.
b) Why isn't Hermione overjoyed at Ron being made prefect?
This scene is completely illogical from the Ron/Hermione viewpoint. Think about it: Ron, supposedly Hermione's crush, has gained an honor - a big event for someone usually overshadowed by Harry. Yet Hermione rushes in expecting Harry to have received the badge and shrieks with joy when she thinks Harry has been made prefect. In the moments after Hermione bursts in, she is completely oblivious to Ron's feelings. Say Harry HAD been made prefect, shouldn't she have spared a thought for Ron's disappointment, seeing as he's her crush? Shouldn't she have felt disappointed she wouldn't be getting to spend time with Ron as prefects together?
c) Why does Hermione suddenly appear to lose interest in Quidditch as soon as Harry is off the team? And why is she so underwhelmed at Ron making the team? A girl who, in PS, was watching Harry play so intently she didn't notice Ron was fighting Malfoy under her chair. When Ron makes the Quidditch team, Hermione falls asleep and only sticks around out of politeness. She goes with Harry to find out what Hagrid wants instead of watching Ron play in the Quidditch final, when Harry could easily have gone on his own. Neither of them even considers that possibility.
g) Nothing happened between Ron/Hermione while they were spending time together over summer.
- they said nothing happened
- Ron said Hermione was "going spare" over Harry
- there were no embarrassed looks when Harry turned up
- they didn't discuss their relationship (if they had, why is Ron surprised when he finds out later that Hermione is in touch with Viktor?)
5) Harry's feelings: Harry has a dream where Cho, his crush, turns into Hermione. He spends a lot of time staring at Hermione in OoTP. There are constant descriptions of what she's doing. Noticeably, for the first time there are descriptions of her "eyes shining" and "face glowing." He sticks up for Hermione to his crush, Cho - even after Cho has made it clear she's suspicious and jealous of Harry's closeness to Hermione. Ginny is given a literary makeover and Harry still doesn't show any attraction to her.
CONCLUSION
I forsee an end relationship with Harry and Hermione. Everyone has an emotional bond with Hermione, and her relationship is the most crucial. No relationship would be bigger than her's. It being Harry's story, it makes sense for them to end up together. Harry's story is directly dependant upon Hermione's feelings.
However, read that carefully. Hermione's relationship is the most important one in the story. And it will have a drastic effect on Harry. Which means it doesn't necessarily mean it will be so. If Ron and Hermione end up together, and it breaks Harry's heart, well then that situation follows my argument too. In the end though, Hermione's is paramount to the story; therefore, if Harry doesn't end up with her, then he won't end up with anyone. Any other relationship Harry could have would be overshadowed by Hermione's.
Whew, that was interesting. I hope some people feel like debating this, and I'm not wasting my time. Though this is a long post, it's kinda important to see my position in order to discuss it with me.
Time to see who actually cares enough about it.
Note: mugglenet.com is where I pulled a lot of my information. It would be useful if you looked at and , they are what finally changed my mind. (And they might be easier to read than my post)