this is what I have to say to those against the bill.
1. Drop your kids off your insurance. If they're over 21 and in school (or if they graduated), too bad. The healthcare bill says they can stay on till they're 26, but you don't want to take advantage of it. 2. When you start getting rebate checks because your insurance company didn't pay out as much as you paid in, be sure to send them back to the insurance company with a letter that you absolutely REFUSE to accept any part of the healthcare bill, thus you refuse to accept the rebates. 3. When you go for well-checks (mammograms, pap smears, etc), DEMAND to pay a co-pay. Since you're against the bill, you won't want to take advantage of the 'no co-pay' part. 4. Tell your elderly parents or grandparents that they should be paying MORE for their prescriptions, since you disagree with the healthcare bill, and it closes the "donut hole" in drug costs for seniors. 5. When you try to buy insurance, be sure you tell the insurance companies that you (your spouse, or your kids) have a pre-existing condition (if applicable), and therefore, you expect to pay a higher rate for coverage. On second thought, tell them to just outright refuse to sell you coverage. That'll teach them! 6. If you run a small business, make sure you refuse all the tax credits you'll get for offering your employees insurance. 7. No more caps on catastrophic illnesses. the insurance companies can n o longer say 'we've paid as much as we're going to pay. You're on your own'.
And if you think moving to Canada will get you away from it, just remember, they have socialized healthcare.
Whether you like Obama or not, this is a good bill. It reels in the control the insurance companies had over your care.
And before I hear "so you don't mind the government getting between you and your doctor", tell me, do you support them telling women what they can and can't do with their reproductive systems? No difference there. (and frankly, I have read the bill. The government is not telling you what you can and can't have done. They're telling insurance companies they have to actually do what they're supposed to do)
Oh darn, LiveJournal doesn't have a "like" button. Well consider this liked! I was going to post this very same thing on my own LJ, but decided not to waste my time. Right-wingers are not going to like it no matter what because the name Obama is attached to it and there's not a thing, no matter how many actual facts you give, that will convince them otherwise. Hatred, ignorance, and bigotry run too deep in certain parts of this country.
It doesn't have to do with Hatred, Ignorance or Bigotry. It has to do with MONEY. Specifically MY MONEY and what it is going to cost me.
And being lied to, many, many times about it.
Believe what you want, the truth will be told on April 15, 2015.
Truth is I do have a pre-existing condition and have been denied coverage before. That doesn't change the fact of it that I'm only working 20 hours a week right now. I've already lost my house and filed bankruptcy. There isn't much more for me to loose and this bill just added another expense I cannot afford. And too many other working Americans can't afford it either.
You are right that now I'm on the hook for whatever medical expenses I incur. And I recently had another Asthma attack that could well be the final straw.
But that doesn't change the true facts that I currently am barely getting by, a family of three and we are living on just over $30K a year. Richard is receiving unemployment. I can't even qualify for unemployment for assistance myself.
And based upon the federal tables that I linked too in my last post, I won't get FREE coverage. I am still expected to pay for it out of pocket. So instead of it being MY decision of if I want to risk continuing to not have coverage, now it is a required tax and I WILL have to pay it and frankly don't know where the money will come for it.
I agree 100% that it should be a basic human right, but every single one of us is going to have to pay for it. And the costs will do nothing but go up. I don't believe anyone will see any rebate checks and the people who really need or could benefit from care won't get it.
I know people right now who are on waiting lists for things as simple as physical therapy and haven't received it because the government can't even deliver the program that currently exists.
Everyone who is defending this bill right now apparently has 2 - 9.5% of disposable income that they don't mind spending on it. If I had that much disposable income I would have bought insurance on my own.
I dont recall anyone interjecting racism into the argument on a national level. Now I have witnessed black liberals spout racist remarks with those who dont agree with them. I have witnessed many people claim someone is racist when race was never brought up. Just like your post.
WHY IS IT WE CANT HAVE AN HONEST DEBATE IN THIS COUNTRY WITHOUT SOMEONE CLAIMING RACISM? I know why and I wont elaborate. If someone were to use the "N" word in their argument I would agree there is racism. But it is very clear that if you disagree with Obama then you are considered a racist when there are no facts to support such a claim. I completely disagree with Obama on just about everything. Guess what? It has absolutely nothing to do with his skin color. His policies suck! He is a piss poor leader! And he is likely a one term president. I was proud when America put the color of a person skin behind them and elected someone other than a white dude for president. At the same time I couldnt believe they elected this fool. And I am not a huge fan of the Repub party. I am a die hard Libertarian. I believe in freedom and equality for ALL. My older brother is gay and is in love with a black man. I am totally cool with it. I really like his boyfriend. For those of you who support Obama, that is your choice. But its time to drop the racism bull when debating an issue. If you cant support your argument without going there then do not debate the issue. And is someone makes a racist remark, then rip into that person. But be honest with yourself. Hold the side that does it accountable. Even if it is from your party. It has been my exp that the left are the real racist.
The only thing that he/she said that is real is #7.
The rest is bull. When a citizen is forced to do something like this health care bullshit. 1-6 is nothing but a punks argument. When a citizen is forced to pay into SS even if he disagrees with the whole scam, its to late. Hes been forced to pay into it. Might as well use the benefit when of age. Since the money was taken from you. Who here among us would have their pay check deducted "X" amount every week for decades and leave that money on the table? Not one! But who here would opt out of having that money stolen from you if they could? And that is what it is, STOLEN. Call it what you like if thats what you need to do to sleep. Dbaxs argument is weak and tired. I am all for REAL HEALTHCARE REFORM!But this isnt it. Like it or not, this "president" served the American public up on a silver tray to the Ins companies. Fascism is alive and well in many among us. George Carlin was correct.
You know what? I respect your right to rant and that we disagree on this. But this is my journal so I have the right to respond.
1. I don't have insurance, but if I did and could afford it I would be happy to cover my kids on it. I see no reason for full families not to be covered, but in the end even the families now that have their kids on their policy ARE paying the premium for it, the government isn't giving them a damn thing. It's something they are buying because they can afford it.
2. Rebate checks? Really? You believe those will actually happen? I'll tell you what, the day I ever see a rebate check due to this, I will gladly donate it to the nearest charity.
3. This is ridiculous of course I'll pay a co-pay, EVERYONE will. And for your information I pay for all those services 100% right now out of pocket anyway and it still costs less than insurance would. And if you don't think the cost of the co-pay won't be added back into the premium, with a mark-up on the other side you haven't looked at a policy schedule ever.
4. I would hope there would be some relief for our parents and grandparents. My Mom is on Medicare and still pays almost $300 a month for her prescriptions. But it's sure a good thing that "donut hole" got closed in January because last year her prescriptions were $450 a month so that $150 a month savings is a big deal. ETA: You know what's funny? Medicare IS A GOVERNMENT PLAN. It's not run by insurance companies. And this is a perfect example of exactly what I am talking about. The government hasn't done a favor for those who can't afford it, but those who NEED that prescription do still have to pay for it.
5. I have tried to buy insurance and know full well pre-existing conditions will make it cost even more. Everyone with a pre-existing condition will pay higher premiums. Even on this plan, if you are a higher risk you will still pay more. Thing is everyone who is not a higher risk will pay more too.
6. You do know how ridiculous this is right? Um the TAX CREDIT is only 40% of the cost the employer has to bear anyway. AND it's only for the first two years the employers even get the credit. So since as an employer I'm going to be out the 60% expense anyway I might as well freeze wages or maybe fire one employee. Or here's a thought I'll just make everyone part-time. So all my employees will be earning less and still won't have insurance. And because of the mandate now they can all pay for it out of their own pocket or you know PAY THE TAX. That will help the economy. The other option for the business owner is to believe that he owes it to his employees because the government requires it, but the only way to stay in business at all and keep these people working is to raise his prices to cover the additional expense. Then all the consumers will bear the cost of it.
7. True about the caps. But do you not really understand how insurance works? Because when the companies have to start paying out more in benefits, they raise the premiums across the board on everyone else to offset it. So yeah it's a good thing someone with cancer will not be denied care, but if you think it won't come back to hit everyone else in the wallet you are wrong.
I'm pretty sure I said I wouldn't consider moving to Canada. But I'll tell you what I do know many working class Canadians feel they pay too much for the socialized healthcare. And the really wealthy Canadians who need medical care come to the US to get it.
And it's not that I mind the government getting between me and my doctor, I didn't mention that at all. What I'm saying is the government is the least efficient most poorly organized provider of medical care currently. Ask anyone who is dependent upon the VA for their care or current recipients of Medicare or Medicade how long they have been on waiting lists or which services simply haven't been available. Or even those just on the regular Medicare that still have to pay 20% of their care out of pocket anyway. And adding the entire population to that customer base now is only going to make it worse.
1. Drop your kids off your insurance. If they're over 21 and in school (or if they graduated), too bad. The healthcare bill says they can stay on till they're 26, but you don't want to take advantage of it.
2. When you start getting rebate checks because your insurance company didn't pay out as much as you paid in, be sure to send them back to the insurance company with a letter that you absolutely REFUSE to accept any part of the healthcare bill, thus you refuse to accept the rebates.
3. When you go for well-checks (mammograms, pap smears, etc), DEMAND to pay a co-pay. Since you're against the bill, you won't want to take advantage of the 'no co-pay' part.
4. Tell your elderly parents or grandparents that they should be paying MORE for their prescriptions, since you disagree with the healthcare bill, and it closes the "donut hole" in drug costs for seniors.
5. When you try to buy insurance, be sure you tell the insurance companies that you (your spouse, or your kids) have a pre-existing condition (if applicable), and therefore, you expect to pay a higher rate for coverage. On second thought, tell them to just outright refuse to sell you coverage. That'll teach them!
6. If you run a small business, make sure you refuse all the tax credits you'll get for offering your employees insurance.
7. No more caps on catastrophic illnesses. the insurance companies can n o longer say 'we've paid as much as we're going to pay. You're on your own'.
And if you think moving to Canada will get you away from it, just remember, they have socialized healthcare.
Whether you like Obama or not, this is a good bill. It reels in the control the insurance companies had over your care.
And before I hear "so you don't mind the government getting between you and your doctor", tell me, do you support them telling women what they can and can't do with their reproductive systems? No difference there. (and frankly, I have read the bill. The government is not telling you what you can and can't have done. They're telling insurance companies they have to actually do what they're supposed to do)
/rant
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Reply
And being lied to, many, many times about it.
Believe what you want, the truth will be told on April 15, 2015.
Truth is I do have a pre-existing condition and have been denied coverage before. That doesn't change the fact of it that I'm only working 20 hours a week right now. I've already lost my house and filed bankruptcy. There isn't much more for me to loose and this bill just added another expense I cannot afford. And too many other working Americans can't afford it either.
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
But that doesn't change the true facts that I currently am barely getting by, a family of three and we are living on just over $30K a year. Richard is receiving unemployment. I can't even qualify for unemployment for assistance myself.
And based upon the federal tables that I linked too in my last post, I won't get FREE coverage. I am still expected to pay for it out of pocket. So instead of it being MY decision of if I want to risk continuing to not have coverage, now it is a required tax and I WILL have to pay it and frankly don't know where the money will come for it.
I agree 100% that it should be a basic human right, but every single one of us is going to have to pay for it. And the costs will do nothing but go up. I don't believe anyone will see any rebate checks and the people who really need or could benefit from care won't get it.
I know people right now who are on waiting lists for things as simple as physical therapy and haven't received it because the government can't even deliver the program that currently exists.
Everyone who is defending this bill right now apparently has 2 - 9.5% of disposable income that they don't mind spending on it. If I had that much disposable income I would have bought insurance on my own.
f
Reply
WHY IS IT WE CANT HAVE AN HONEST DEBATE IN THIS COUNTRY WITHOUT SOMEONE CLAIMING RACISM? I know why and I wont elaborate.
If someone were to use the "N" word in their argument I would agree there is racism. But it is very clear that if you disagree with Obama then you are considered a racist when there are no facts to support such a claim.
I completely disagree with Obama on just about everything. Guess what? It has absolutely nothing to do with his skin color. His policies suck! He is a piss poor leader! And he is likely a one term president. I was proud when America put the color of a person skin behind them and elected someone other than a white dude for president. At the same time I couldnt believe they elected this fool. And I am not a huge fan of the Repub party. I am a die hard Libertarian. I believe in freedom and equality for ALL. My older brother is gay and is in love with a black man. I am totally cool with it. I really like his boyfriend.
For those of you who support Obama, that is your choice. But its time to drop the racism bull when debating an issue. If you cant support your argument without going there then do not debate the issue. And is someone makes a racist remark, then rip into that person. But be honest with yourself. Hold the side that does it accountable. Even if it is from your party. It has been my exp that the left are the real racist.
Reply
Dbax is funny
The only thing that he/she said that is real is #7.
The rest is bull. When a citizen is forced to do something like this health care bullshit. 1-6 is nothing but a punks argument. When a citizen is forced to pay into SS even if he disagrees with the whole scam, its to late. Hes been forced to pay into it. Might as well use the benefit when of age. Since the money was taken from you. Who here among us would have their pay check deducted "X" amount every week for decades and leave that money on the table? Not one! But who here would opt out of having that money stolen from you if they could? And that is what it is, STOLEN. Call it what you like if thats what you need to do to sleep. Dbaxs argument is weak and tired.
I am all for REAL HEALTHCARE REFORM!But this isnt it. Like it or not, this "president" served the American public up on a silver tray to the Ins companies. Fascism is alive and well in many among us. George Carlin was correct.
Reply
1. I don't have insurance, but if I did and could afford it I would be happy to cover my kids on it. I see no reason for full families not to be covered, but in the end even the families now that have their kids on their policy ARE paying the premium for it, the government isn't giving them a damn thing. It's something they are buying because they can afford it.
2. Rebate checks? Really? You believe those will actually happen? I'll tell you what, the day I ever see a rebate check due to this, I will gladly donate it to the nearest charity.
3. This is ridiculous of course I'll pay a co-pay, EVERYONE will. And for your information I pay for all those services 100% right now out of pocket anyway and it still costs less than insurance would. And if you don't think the cost of the co-pay won't be added back into the premium, with a mark-up on the other side you haven't looked at a policy schedule ever.
4. I would hope there would be some relief for our parents and grandparents. My Mom is on Medicare and still pays almost $300 a month for her prescriptions. But it's sure a good thing that "donut hole" got closed in January because last year her prescriptions were $450 a month so that $150 a month savings is a big deal. ETA: You know what's funny? Medicare IS A GOVERNMENT PLAN. It's not run by insurance companies. And this is a perfect example of exactly what I am talking about. The government hasn't done a favor for those who can't afford it, but those who NEED that prescription do still have to pay for it.
5. I have tried to buy insurance and know full well pre-existing conditions will make it cost even more. Everyone with a pre-existing condition will pay higher premiums. Even on this plan, if you are a higher risk you will still pay more. Thing is everyone who is not a higher risk will pay more too.
6. You do know how ridiculous this is right? Um the TAX CREDIT is only 40% of the cost the employer has to bear anyway. AND it's only for the first two years the employers even get the credit. So since as an employer I'm going to be out the 60% expense anyway I might as well freeze wages or maybe fire one employee. Or here's a thought I'll just make everyone part-time. So all my employees will be earning less and still won't have insurance. And because of the mandate now they can all pay for it out of their own pocket or you know PAY THE TAX. That will help the economy. The other option for the business owner is to believe that he owes it to his employees because the government requires it, but the only way to stay in business at all and keep these people working is to raise his prices to cover the additional expense. Then all the consumers will bear the cost of it.
7. True about the caps. But do you not really understand how insurance works? Because when the companies have to start paying out more in benefits, they raise the premiums across the board on everyone else to offset it. So yeah it's a good thing someone with cancer will not be denied care, but if you think it won't come back to hit everyone else in the wallet you are wrong.
I'm pretty sure I said I wouldn't consider moving to Canada. But I'll tell you what I do know many working class Canadians feel they pay too much for the socialized healthcare. And the really wealthy Canadians who need medical care come to the US to get it.
And it's not that I mind the government getting between me and my doctor, I didn't mention that at all. What I'm saying is the government is the least efficient most poorly organized provider of medical care currently. Ask anyone who is dependent upon the VA for their care or current recipients of Medicare or Medicade how long they have been on waiting lists or which services simply haven't been available. Or even those just on the regular Medicare that still have to pay 20% of their care out of pocket anyway. And adding the entire population to that customer base now is only going to make it worse.
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