Ah, see. There I am, on the libertarian left. For comparison, politicalcompass.org puts both Obama and Clinton in the Authoritarian Right, along with all but two of the current presidential hopefuls
( Read more... )
For NZ - Labour & National are the two big parties, all the others have 2-5% each ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_general_election%2C_2005#Official_election_results_table) Labour basically gets varying levels of support from the Progressives, United Future, NZ First and the Greens. As far as I can tell, they've been in 3 terms and as nothing too dramatic has happened, people are getting bored and want change for the sake of it, but honestly, they haven't been too nob-like. At the moment, people are getting grumpy because they won't give tax cuts during a period of high inflation, and National promises it will, and are instead keeping the surplus in reserve, and started an optional national... 401k type plan? (We didn't really have one before). That they're offering tax breaks and incentives etc on, and can go towards your first mortgage etc. In other words, eminently sensible from every economics perspective I've ever heard, but ah, delayed gratification. Not nearly as sexy. *sigh* :P
I don't know. I've heard a few rants railing against the possibility of Democracies just voting themselves bread & circuses, which I've always found kind of ironic, considering it's always ACT & National, going tax cuts! And tough on crime! (Yes, thank you, we know crime is bad, but does longer sentences for more minor crimes actually help?). I don't think they quite understand the historical analogy.
From my point of view, American political representation does kind of match the little graph thing. It's already looks like it's really crazily rightwing/authoritarian dominated, and didn't seem to represent the people I met much at all. But I figure it's a consequence of the political system (electoral college, smaller (red) states having more sway for size than larger (blue) states) and the size of the US more than anything.
I'm aware of that - I accidentally ah, reworded things more unclearly?
What was worrying was that that San Francisco felt a lot like Wellington, that I met many lovely people and that just wandering around San Francisco, Oakland, Berkeley, in the woods in Oregon, travelling around via Greyhound, from all over the US at Burningman, and that they were like me, like people I know here, and that they weren't represented by their government at all. That there was just as much culture gap between them and their government as between, well, me and your goverment. And that was what was worrying and a little sad.
But you realize, yes, that Northern California (Berkeley, for heaven's sake), and western Oregon (especially Portland) are very liberal areas of the country. If you had traveled to every state, a more varied picture would emerge. People choose to move to places like Portland and Berkeley because they wish to be near people who remind them of themselves. And people move away from places where they don't feel as if they are a valued part of the community, or that despite their own individual civic activity, their cities and her people fail to represent who they are. So, yes. You get "red" states and "blue" states (although the reality is not quite as simple as some make it seem).
It's as if you had attended a meeting of the Association of Purple Dinosaur Haters, and then declared... "Well, I didn't meet anyone who voted for a purple dinosaur. The system is obviously faulty!" ;)
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I'm also a bit puzzled as to what you mean about "bigger" states getting more votes -- the number of electoral votes each state receives is directly related to the number of Representatives and Senators in Congress, which is directly related to population. Alaska is a big-ass state, but only receives three votes, since it's population is relatively small (approx 670,000). Puny Rhode Island (1,067,600), the size of my head, receives four. New Jersey (8,724,500), fifteen. California, the most populous state at 36,457,500 people, receives the most electoral votes (55).
... Let me try again - I did not expect in any way that the people I met were a majority, or even that they might be a particularly sizable minority - but it bothered me that it felt like an unrepresented minority.
American politics are bewildering to me, but I had not realised that it would be just as bewildering to many people that I met - that being in Northern California, ruled from across the country by people with a very different cultural viewpoint would be as strange as if New Zealand, a tiny little place of 4 million people, was being represented by the US government.
When I say minority, I'm only talking about groups as small as 2% of the population. In NZ for example, the Green party has 5% of the vote, and represents a very green viewpoint, and of those elected representatives of the Green party for example, you have Nandor Tanczos, who has dreadlocks, wears hemp suits, and skateboards to parliament. I'm picking a rather superficial image to make a point, but that that is a segment of the population that is represented in parliament, that has some voice in national politics (and there's several other parties that support various authoritarian or libertarian right wing or religious viewpoints). Having that plethora of different opinions has it's disadvantages for sure, and tends to require more compromise and negotiation, it just brought it home to me how... different that is. Meh, I'm tired. :(
No, you know what? I'm not happy with the tone of my last reply. It sounds too much like I'm trying to show you up, or convince you of something. When really, I was only trying to defend something I love.
Just stupid cycles I get into when I talk politics... I'm just about as ignorant as the next person -- don't let me get away with pretending to sound as if I'm not. :)
http://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2005
For NZ - Labour & National are the two big parties, all the others have 2-5% each ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_general_election%2C_2005#Official_election_results_table)
Labour basically gets varying levels of support from the Progressives, United Future, NZ First and the Greens. As far as I can tell, they've been in 3 terms and as nothing too dramatic has happened, people are getting bored and want change for the sake of it, but honestly, they haven't been too nob-like. At the moment, people are getting grumpy because they won't give tax cuts during a period of high inflation, and National promises it will, and are instead keeping the surplus in reserve, and started an optional national... 401k type plan? (We didn't really have one before). That they're offering tax breaks and incentives etc on, and can go towards your first mortgage etc. In other words, eminently sensible from every economics perspective I've ever heard, but ah, delayed gratification. Not nearly as sexy.
*sigh*
:P
I don't know. I've heard a few rants railing against the possibility of Democracies just voting themselves bread & circuses, which I've always found kind of ironic, considering it's always ACT & National, going tax cuts! And tough on crime! (Yes, thank you, we know crime is bad, but does longer sentences for more minor crimes actually help?). I don't think they quite understand the historical analogy.
From my point of view, American political representation does kind of match the little graph thing. It's already looks like it's really crazily rightwing/authoritarian dominated, and didn't seem to represent the people I met much at all.
But I figure it's a consequence of the political system (electoral college, smaller (red) states having more sway for size than larger (blue) states) and the size of the US more than anything.
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What was worrying was that that San Francisco felt a lot like Wellington, that I met many lovely people and that just wandering around San Francisco, Oakland, Berkeley, in the woods in Oregon, travelling around via Greyhound, from all over the US at Burningman, and that they were like me, like people I know here, and that they weren't represented by their government at all. That there was just as much culture gap between them and their government as between, well, me and your goverment. And that was what was worrying and a little sad.
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It's as if you had attended a meeting of the Association of Purple Dinosaur Haters, and then declared... "Well, I didn't meet anyone who voted for a purple dinosaur. The system is obviously faulty!" ;)
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I'm also a bit puzzled as to what you mean about "bigger" states getting more votes -- the number of electoral votes each state receives is directly related to the number of Representatives and Senators in Congress, which is directly related to population. Alaska is a big-ass state, but only receives three votes, since it's population is relatively small (approx 670,000). Puny Rhode Island (1,067,600), the size of my head, receives four. New Jersey (8,724,500), fifteen. California, the most populous state at 36,457,500 people, receives the most electoral votes (55).
Electoral Map @ Wikipedia.
Complaining that we aren't a direct democracy, while certainly within your right to do so, is a bit like yelling at the dog because it is not a cat.
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Let me try again - I did not expect in any way that the people I met were a majority, or even that they might be a particularly sizable minority - but it bothered me that it felt like an unrepresented minority.
American politics are bewildering to me, but I had not realised that it would be just as bewildering to many people that I met - that being in Northern California, ruled from across the country by people with a very different cultural viewpoint would be as strange as if New Zealand, a tiny little place of 4 million people, was being represented by the US government.
When I say minority, I'm only talking about groups as small as 2% of the population. In NZ for example, the Green party has 5% of the vote, and represents a very green viewpoint, and of those elected representatives of the Green party for example, you have Nandor Tanczos, who has dreadlocks, wears hemp suits, and skateboards to parliament.
I'm picking a rather superficial image to make a point, but that that is a segment of the population that is represented in parliament, that has some voice in national politics (and there's several other parties that support various authoritarian or libertarian right wing or religious viewpoints). Having that plethora of different opinions has it's disadvantages for sure, and tends to require more compromise and negotiation, it just brought it home to me how... different that is.
Meh, I'm tired. :(
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NOW YOU ARE TALKING. When can we invade plz? ;D
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have you any idea how many more Americans we've had over here in recent years?
Teh Invasion has begun!
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Just stupid cycles I get into when I talk politics... I'm just about as ignorant as the next person -- don't let me get away with pretending to sound as if I'm not. :)
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:\ D'oh.
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But it's a fun toy. I like to take it every now and then, just to see.
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