As someone late to their own wedding themselves.... (but my partner and I were late together... does that count for something?) I must admit am generally firmly set in the present and it causes me HUGE anxiety to worry about punctuality. Like... TREMENDOUS amounts of anxiety during the weeks, days, and hours to the event... even something as simple as a doctor's appointment. Two days ago I had an appointment I made 3 months ago for a 20 minute appointment. I probably spent 20 hours in 30 second snippets over the last 3 months WORRYING about/REMINDING myself to be on time for that appointment. (note: I was 3 minutes early by their clock! 5 minutes by mine.) The more serious it is that I am on time, the more I have to plan my **entire life** around that moment just to have a chance at be there early or on time.
I'm like a butterfly where it doesn't fly in a straight line, but it IS going somewhere despite the buffeting of life's breezes.
Where I find success is that I do imagine/plan for lots of scenarios and back up plans pretty naturally... and will set up a whole bevy of possibilities ready to occur, and then I just try to hit one of the many targets I set up knowing that at least the endpoint will be predictable even if the pathway there will not be.
The thing about the present is it is solidifying before our eyes... so when things go off the rails there may not be a solution except... watch it happen and be ready to roll with it, no matter what. I am way more comfortable rolling with today's punches than stressing myself out trying to accurately predict tomorrow's punches. That's where *I* become horrified! Ha!
But I do spend (what feels like) an appropriate amount of time looking into the past AND looking into the future trying to understand what happened/what will happen... so I can feel prepared and *not* helpless today. We all have our methods for trying to make our mindsets help us be happy rather than drag us down into some pit of despair.
Which is all outside of how society judges these mindsets/habits!
I think that you and your partner being late together DOES count for something! My sister was late on her own! Whole church full of ppl who flew in from the opposite coast, waiting! Groom, waiting! Priest tapping his foot because in California church services are paid and timed affairs and he had another wedding pending directly after hers!
Maybe worrying about punctuality causes my sister anxiety too. Maybe to avoid that anxiety she just doesn't look at the clock until she's "ready," and so her state of readiness is always what determines whether she's early, on time, or late. Like, she abdicates responsibility for her timeliness to the universe.
Which is all fine and good, but when you being late is going to inconvenience or otherwise impact the lives of other human beings--who are not NPCs, but real breathing thinking people whose time is just as limited and valuable--that's when it pisses me off. (you is an impersonal pronoun here btw, not referring to YOU personally.)
I'd much rather suffer myself, than make ten people suffer for me.
But, my sister is OK with it. So to protect myself and the value of MY time, I lie to her about when events occur, and/or limit our interactions, and/or set restrictions on our interactions which I then follow through on later.
Anyway. It sounds like you at least consider possibilities and visualize consequences, and then you're at least prepared for some scenarios.
I look ahead too much. The present is a place of calm for me, because in the present moment I'm playing out one of my plans (I got here on time, I'm warming up for the concert) or having to react to whatever situation I'm in (I'm on a plane and whatever happens next is up to the pilot and staff, I have to let go control.) But always in the present, while I'm doing my little autopilot Plan B for This Scenario or whatever, my brain is going, "You're warming up now...but you have a solo in the second movement! Who knows what will happen! Better worry about it now!" or "The flight time is 1.5 hours, but what if it's turbulent for 60 minutes of that? What's going to be Plan C for turbulence and Plan D for the flight getting diverted?"
And if either of those scenarios happens, I sure am sitting pretty, and am calm because I planned ahead and have a Dumbo's feather of control to cling to. But more often than not I DON'T have to use Plans B, C, D, E, etc, so all that worrying and plotting and scheming is a waste of energy...and probably ultimately health, too.
BUT. At least in future-anxiety-land, I'm not negatively impacting, or stealing time from, the people around me. My anxiety is 99% my own problem. I'd much rather have that.
I'll fess up RIGHT NOW. Sailor and I were 3 HOURS late to our wedding in wilderness location with no cell service so everyone just.... waited. Our VERY small group of intimate guests (my local family, his local family, my reverend and his local family) just... went hiking and nibbled at the potluck food, and talked to each other and got to know each other. It sorta turned into the kind of reception where the bride/groom leave and everyone parties... only it was before the wedding while waiting for us!
The thing we felt worst about was that people worried... imagining some horrible bride/groom car crash on the way to the chapel scenario.
There was definitely a mention from my best friend and Mom... that "Well, if The Wench is involved... we know we might just have to wait a bit, but she WILL come... eventually!"
But my nom is the same way, so she was happy I was late because she was about an hour late (ie: much earlier than we were!)
People being genuinely and angrily frustrated with me over a little lateness just feels like them giving their own personal anxiety about the present/future/timeliness to me as if it were a precious gift and my walking in breathless and late is a personal attack/snub of some kind as if I spent the last however-many minutes going, "I'll show THEM! THIS IS A GLEEFUL THEFT FROM THEIR LIFE!!!!!" instead of, "Oh shit! Shit! Shit! Shit! I hope they're not MAD AT ME!!" while I drive the speed limit and hope they understand.
It is very strange (to me) to think everyone's lives MUST run on the same clock even though we are so highly individualized living our individual personal life 24/7. Your life/time/energy is precious, but so is mine.
I won't tell someone to not be mad that I "stole" 20 minutes of their life because I was 10 minutes late and then hit a traffic jam on the way. Be mad, that's fine... but also understand... I am living my life, too... and it doesn't revolve around *your* life's expectations. We are both giving each other gifts of our time/attention/energy. We are equals. I try my best to DO what I say I'll DO to the nth degree... but that's all I can do and I'm not going to lose sleep because you were hungry and ordered a sandwich before I got there. PROMISE.
My failed timing robbed *US BOTH* of 20 minutes together. We both lost, and I'm sorry it was my fault and I am eager to apologize and make amends. I DID hurry and I DO feel bad, but not THAT bad... literally everything ELSE worked out. We both arrived safely, so where is the emergency?
But when it's the other person who is late? I don't care about your reasons except being eager to know what their life has been like up until RIGHT NOW! I'm just happy we MADE that kismet happen! We made it work out to be together at all!! Yay! Let's enjoy it!
On the other hand... I am usually not the first one there, but I am the one who stays late to clean up, pays the extra tip/forgotten bill, arranges rides for drunks, locks up and gets the extra done at the END of everything EXACTLY because once I am there.... I AM THERE. I am not thinking about time. I am not thinking about the next thing *I* need to do.. once I arrive I can devote myself to what I am DOING. I am fully present and I can HAPPILY (and naturally) do what needs done at the end... just like the someone else who HAPPILY (and naturally) arrived early and could help with set-up and last minute preparations.
So I'm not a monster, I'm just not very punctual with casual social engagements. I'd rather be an understanding late person, than a stressed punctual person. That's my choice for me, and how other people handle it when they interact my inconvenient individuality,.. is all them.
It sounds to me like you do value others' time! Of course everyone is late once in a while. Or if you, like my sister, are late all the time, the people around them simply make adjustments to accommodate that trait. And in the case of your wedding...what would people have been doing for those three hours anyway? Probably doing the wedding ceremony and then enjoying a reception anyway! So no harm no foul :)
But ya know...there are people who are late often, who don't tell you they're running late (WITH phone service/communication options.) People who assume that others will not mind or be inconvenienced, and therefore CHOOSE to be late or take their time regardless of what impact that has on others.
It's one thing when it's just, like, who you are. It's another, in my mind, when it's a conscious or consistent choice for someone to say, "They can wait" so that THEY can enjoy more time at the expense of another person/people. That, to me, is time theft.
Anyway I didn't mean to start a thing. Most of the people who do this, regardless of the why, don't even think about it at all, they just do it.
I hope you know I don't think this is "a thing" or even that you "started" it! Ha! I really like you telling me exactly what you think/do and why you think/do it.. and appreciate you being willing to share that strong point of view as your own and stand by it!
I think we both **might** be defensive about our position(s)/style because we both (at least I know I do) get a lot of pushback for being... the way we are and strident about it. So I just want to let you know I think this is just a fun conversation talking about what stresses us out, not like a Punctual vs Timey-Wimey,.. but like why I do what I do and why you do what you do. Educating each other about how it works *FOR OURSELVES*,.. right?
I mean,... no one I love yelled at me at my own wedding, and if they did... well.. I wouldn't care anyways and just make a note I don't invite them to my next one for all that's worth! Ha! The only person who was actual MAD for real, was my bestie's husband-at-the-time who had to watch HIS OWN CHILDREN (!!) for HOURS (hours!!) longer than he expected, with ONLY (ONLY!!) the help of his MOTHER to assist and no contact with his wife (wilderness zone ftw!) for HOURS about how to do [anything/everything] and ask her to come home early when one of them cries. And he? Well I had no problems with his discomfort, but it was sad my friend had to pay the price when she got back home - for our slow arrival.
As I wrote my last reply, I was late going to a friend's presentation because I wanted to finish my thought about my lateness. See? I'm monstrous!
Of course I didn't KNOW I was late, I had completely forgotten in my plan to recover from yesterday and my brain only clued me in once my thoughts on lateness were finished at which point it's like, "OK! Now that you're done with that... check the time. Hmm It's 1:35pm. Didn't SOMEONE... SOMEWHERE look at you sternly recently and say, '1:30 on Sunday... you'll come? It's in your neighborhood and I'd really appreciate it.'? Isn't TODAY Sunday?"
D'oh!
I'm a disappointment, but I went late and listened politely to what was left, and asked thoughtful questions that HADN'T fully been There are a lot of time cultures and time signatures. I don't think any single one of them is *right*. I think there are many kinds... because there are many kinds of people, and many different personal needs. We just have to learn to work with one another, even though we think/act/believe differently... that's all.
The more serious it is that I am on time, the more I have to plan my **entire life** around that moment just to have a chance at be there early or on time.
I'm like a butterfly where it doesn't fly in a straight line, but it IS going somewhere despite the buffeting of life's breezes.
Where I find success is that I do imagine/plan for lots of scenarios and back up plans pretty naturally... and will set up a whole bevy of possibilities ready to occur, and then I just try to hit one of the many targets I set up knowing that at least the endpoint will be predictable even if the pathway there will not be.
The thing about the present is it is solidifying before our eyes... so when things go off the rails there may not be a solution except... watch it happen and be ready to roll with it, no matter what.
I am way more comfortable rolling with today's punches than stressing myself out trying to accurately predict tomorrow's punches.
That's where *I* become horrified! Ha!
But I do spend (what feels like) an appropriate amount of time looking into the past AND looking into the future trying to understand what happened/what will happen... so I can feel prepared and *not* helpless today. We all have our methods for trying to make our mindsets help us be happy rather than drag us down into some pit of despair.
Which is all outside of how society judges these mindsets/habits!
Reply
My sister was late on her own! Whole church full of ppl who flew in from the opposite coast, waiting! Groom, waiting! Priest tapping his foot because in California church services are paid and timed affairs and he had another wedding pending directly after hers!
Maybe worrying about punctuality causes my sister anxiety too. Maybe to avoid that anxiety she just doesn't look at the clock until she's "ready," and so her state of readiness is always what determines whether she's early, on time, or late. Like, she abdicates responsibility for her timeliness to the universe.
Which is all fine and good, but when you being late is going to inconvenience or otherwise impact the lives of other human beings--who are not NPCs, but real breathing thinking people whose time is just as limited and valuable--that's when it pisses me off. (you is an impersonal pronoun here btw, not referring to YOU personally.)
I'd much rather suffer myself, than make ten people suffer for me.
But, my sister is OK with it. So to protect myself and the value of MY time, I lie to her about when events occur, and/or limit our interactions, and/or set restrictions on our interactions which I then follow through on later.
Anyway. It sounds like you at least consider possibilities and visualize consequences, and then you're at least prepared for some scenarios.
I look ahead too much. The present is a place of calm for me, because in the present moment I'm playing out one of my plans (I got here on time, I'm warming up for the concert) or having to react to whatever situation I'm in (I'm on a plane and whatever happens next is up to the pilot and staff, I have to let go control.) But always in the present, while I'm doing my little autopilot Plan B for This Scenario or whatever, my brain is going, "You're warming up now...but you have a solo in the second movement! Who knows what will happen! Better worry about it now!" or "The flight time is 1.5 hours, but what if it's turbulent for 60 minutes of that? What's going to be Plan C for turbulence and Plan D for the flight getting diverted?"
And if either of those scenarios happens, I sure am sitting pretty, and am calm because I planned ahead and have a Dumbo's feather of control to cling to. But more often than not I DON'T have to use Plans B, C, D, E, etc, so all that worrying and plotting and scheming is a waste of energy...and probably ultimately health, too.
BUT. At least in future-anxiety-land, I'm not negatively impacting, or stealing time from, the people around me. My anxiety is 99% my own problem. I'd much rather have that.
Reply
Our VERY small group of intimate guests (my local family, his local family, my reverend and his local family) just... went hiking and nibbled at the potluck food, and talked to each other and got to know each other. It sorta turned into the kind of reception where the bride/groom leave and everyone parties... only it was before the wedding while waiting for us!
The thing we felt worst about was that people worried... imagining some horrible bride/groom car crash on the way to the chapel scenario.
There was definitely a mention from my best friend and Mom... that "Well, if The Wench is involved... we know we might just have to wait a bit, but she WILL come... eventually!"
But my nom is the same way, so she was happy I was late because she was about an hour late (ie: much earlier than we were!)
People being genuinely and angrily frustrated with me over a little lateness just feels like them giving their own personal anxiety about the present/future/timeliness to me as if it were a precious gift and my walking in breathless and late is a personal attack/snub of some kind as if I spent the last however-many minutes going, "I'll show THEM! THIS IS A GLEEFUL THEFT FROM THEIR LIFE!!!!!" instead of, "Oh shit! Shit! Shit! Shit! I hope they're not MAD AT ME!!" while I drive the speed limit and hope they understand.
It is very strange (to me) to think everyone's lives MUST run on the same clock even though we are so highly individualized living our individual personal life 24/7. Your life/time/energy is precious, but so is mine.
I won't tell someone to not be mad that I "stole" 20 minutes of their life because I was 10 minutes late and then hit a traffic jam on the way. Be mad, that's fine... but also understand... I am living my life, too... and it doesn't revolve around *your* life's expectations. We are both giving each other gifts of our time/attention/energy. We are equals. I try my best to DO what I say I'll DO to the nth degree... but that's all I can do and I'm not going to lose sleep because you were hungry and ordered a sandwich before I got there. PROMISE.
My failed timing robbed *US BOTH* of 20 minutes together. We both lost, and I'm sorry it was my fault and I am eager to apologize and make amends. I DID hurry and I DO feel bad, but not THAT bad... literally everything ELSE worked out. We both arrived safely, so where is the emergency?
But when it's the other person who is late? I don't care about your reasons except being eager to know what their life has been like up until RIGHT NOW! I'm just happy we MADE that kismet happen! We made it work out to be together at all!! Yay! Let's enjoy it!
On the other hand... I am usually not the first one there, but I am the one who stays late to clean up, pays the extra tip/forgotten bill, arranges rides for drunks, locks up and gets the extra done at the END of everything EXACTLY because once I am there.... I AM THERE. I am not thinking about time. I am not thinking about the next thing *I* need to do.. once I arrive I can devote myself to what I am DOING. I am fully present and I can HAPPILY (and naturally) do what needs done at the end... just like the someone else who HAPPILY (and naturally) arrived early and could help with set-up and last minute preparations.
So I'm not a monster, I'm just not very punctual with casual social engagements.
I'd rather be an understanding late person, than a stressed punctual person.
That's my choice for me, and how other people handle it when they interact my inconvenient individuality,.. is all them.
Reply
But ya know...there are people who are late often, who don't tell you they're running late (WITH phone service/communication options.) People who assume that others will not mind or be inconvenienced, and therefore CHOOSE to be late or take their time regardless of what impact that has on others.
It's one thing when it's just, like, who you are. It's another, in my mind, when it's a conscious or consistent choice for someone to say, "They can wait" so that THEY can enjoy more time at the expense of another person/people. That, to me, is time theft.
Anyway I didn't mean to start a thing. Most of the people who do this, regardless of the why, don't even think about it at all, they just do it.
Reply
I really like you telling me exactly what you think/do and why you think/do it.. and appreciate you being willing to share that strong point of view as your own and stand by it!
I think we both **might** be defensive about our position(s)/style because we both (at least I know I do) get a lot of pushback for being... the way we are and strident about it. So I just want to let you know I think this is just a fun conversation talking about what stresses us out, not like a Punctual vs Timey-Wimey,.. but like why I do what I do and why you do what you do. Educating each other about how it works *FOR OURSELVES*,.. right?
I mean,... no one I love yelled at me at my own wedding, and if they did... well.. I wouldn't care anyways and just make a note I don't invite them to my next one for all that's worth! Ha! The only person who was actual MAD for real, was my bestie's husband-at-the-time who had to watch HIS OWN CHILDREN (!!) for HOURS (hours!!) longer than he expected, with ONLY (ONLY!!) the help of his MOTHER to assist and no contact with his wife (wilderness zone ftw!) for HOURS about how to do [anything/everything] and ask her to come home early when one of them cries.
And he? Well I had no problems with his discomfort, but it was sad my friend had to pay the price when she got back home - for our slow arrival.
As I wrote my last reply,
I was late going to a friend's presentation because I wanted to finish my thought about my lateness. See? I'm monstrous!
Of course I didn't KNOW I was late,
I had completely forgotten in my plan to recover from yesterday and my brain only clued me in once my thoughts on lateness were finished at which point it's like, "OK! Now that you're done with that... check the time. Hmm It's 1:35pm. Didn't SOMEONE... SOMEWHERE look at you sternly recently and say, '1:30 on Sunday... you'll come? It's in your neighborhood and I'd really appreciate it.'? Isn't TODAY Sunday?"
D'oh!
I'm a disappointment, but I went late and listened politely to what was left, and asked thoughtful questions that HADN'T fully been
There are a lot of time cultures and time signatures.
I don't think any single one of them is *right*.
I think there are many kinds... because there are many kinds of people, and many different personal needs.
We just have to learn to work with one another, even though we think/act/believe differently... that's all.
Reply
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