[ooc] fanon v. canon GO!

[gant_touch_this]

So, this is something that's been on my mind: I've heard multiple people at various times complain about fanon!Gant, but as someone who's never been heavily involved in PW fandom, I... don't really know what that means. So! In the interest of self-edification (and of writing a better, stronger, fancier Gant) I'd like to know, what does fanon!Gant

Comments

[cfud_anon]

I'm fine with it being open if you are.

I'm a little confused. In canon, Gant is a manipulative and controlling individual. The character in canon is someone who can actually catch you by surprise as being the so-called "bad guy" in his case, which is a remarkable standing in a Phoenix Wright game. Most Phoenix Wright characters are subtle like bricks, whereas Gant doesn't come off as the type of individual who would immediately strike you as manipulative.

In camp, in numerous threads, I find it hard to believe that Gant is subtle. He comes on incredibly strong. I would recommend that you try to reel him in when you do things, as it seems like everything he does is rather heavy-handed. It may also lead to someone misreading his threads with Dean. Quite honestly, right now, your Gant is hardly recognizable to the one in canon.

The issue I see with his sexuality is that you take a character who does things without sexuality being a tool in canon and you make it his only tool in camp. When I read Gant's threads, I see someone emotionally manipulating someone to not act like himself. I see someone dominating and in control. Honestly, it reads as if he is a sexual predator. There's a difference between using sex as a tool and what you're doing. Like I said, it reads like it is Gant's only tool. You aren't manipulating or working his strings in any other way. Furthermore, why is he working at Dean like he is? What does he get out of having that power and control over him? In canon, he has reasons to do these things. In camp, what reason does he have with Dean?

At any rate, there's a difference between what you're saying you're doing and what you appear to actually be doing. Gant may be a virile 60-something man who has a healthy sex life in canon, but there's no evidence to this. He's surrounded by people he could have used in this way, but he never flirts or comes off this way at any point. In camp, you have twisted all of his motivations in coming from this sole point. You can make someone sexual without making it all that they are. I believe that's what I'm trying to say. So, yes, it does seem like you are making a good portion of his personality about sex and groping other people. You focus heavily on his relationship with Dean, and while I do not know why Dean would give in to Gant's advances, I do not completely understand why Gant would do that or why you would feel a manipulative and controlling man would aim to control Dean in that way.

[gant_touch_this]

I will definitely work on reeling him in. I'm not a very subtle person myself, so if he comes off as heavy-handed, that's probably less my intentionally playing him that way and more my tendency to be blunt. ^^; But in playing canon, I notice that much of Gant's authority comes not just from subtle behind-the-scenes manipulation, but in also being too intimidating, dominating, and imposing for anyone to effectively stop him. He just crashes through situations like a tidal wave and doesn't stick around long enough for anyone to call him on it. His subtlety only extends so far.

I would like to respond directly to this statement: Gant may be a virile 60-something man who has a healthy sex life in canon, but there's no evidence to this. He's surrounded by people he could have used in this way, but he never flirts or comes off this way at any point, by mentioning that in canon, we always see him a) through Phoenix's eyes, and b) always in a professional context, either at the police headquarters or in court. Gant has no reason to flirt with coworkers or with opposing counsel or anyone in a court proceeding, but for him to flirt with someone who shows an interest with him in what is to him a vacation setting seems reasonable to me. Camp is definitely not a professional context for him; that's why I've been playing him quite a bit more relaxed than he is in canon. But I do take your assertion that he's hardly recognizable very seriously, and I will work on correcting that.

I'm really not that bothered if someone misinterprets Gant's interactions with Dean; it is definitely a weird relationship, and probably would look odd to any observer.

As for Dean, i suppose you'd need to ask Dean's player yourself why Dean responds the way he does to Gant's attention, the fact that he allows it certainly encourages Gant to continue to press, and see what develops. You want to know what Gant is achieving, or hopes to achieve, through his relationship with Dean? Well, for one, he gets the satisfaction and amusement that comes with with fracturing a seemingly impenetrable facade; he gets the chance to make someone as desirable and as attractive and as good as Dean dependent on him (and Gant is definitely attracted to Dean's goodness, tarnished though it may be). He also has grown legitimately fond of Dean; during the Heroes weekend, while he had psychic powers, he saw into Dean's mind and experienced a taste of Dean's forty years of Hell. And that disturbed him a lot; he's only human, after all. But a big part of why Gant pays so much attention to Dean is because it's fun for him.. And in this place, where no one can really harm him and there's nothing he really stands to lose, that's enough for him.

[cfud_anon]

However, while he may be subtle and quick enough, I think it would be something you could pull off differently in camp. He could get things to hold over people's heads and black mail them, ensuring that things go in his favor. By having that blackmail, he would give himself control over numerous individuals. The fact that he doesn't do this in any way but sexually is confusing. As a result, you do make him highly OOC by preferring to stick with sexual intentions. The game may be through Phoenix's eyes. However, it's not like Phoenix Wright (as a series) refuses to touch on sexual issues. It seems unlikely that it wouldn't come up. If he's so willing to pursue someone sexually as you do with him in camp, why didn't it come up with Lana-or even Phoenix himself? Gant, as you're explaining him, appears to be the type to approach these individuals in this way. Instead, he doesn't, and things go rather differently.

That extends to the issue of Dean. He does get into Dean's head and therefore knows many of his issues. Why does he jump to a sexual relationship with him? Why does his hold over him need to be sexual? Would it not make sense for the relationship itself to be manipulative without that element? He could easily control and force Dean to open up in other ways. While Gant is a character who very much has a thing for manipulation and control, you're twisting it by adding this sexual element. This isn't an argument I'm making because it can't be there, but because canon's evidence tends to contradict its possibilities. Gant may be familiar with other elements of Dean, but to the outsider's eye, it still reads like a sexual predator. He reads like someone wanting a trophy in the form of Dean, and even explaining it, you haven't thrown off this possibility.

I know you've done a lot of development with him since he's joined and I apologize for not approaching you sooner. I wish you luck, and my advice does largely weigh around removing the sexual element from your current play or addressing it so you subdue it quite a bit. If it's being misread by myself, there's a chance it's being misread by someone else.

[gant_touch_this]

There's not much that blackmailing anyone in camp would really accomplish, though. In canon, most of his actions all spring from the desire to hide his secret and maintain his position. Here, he really doesn't have anything to hide and he has no position to preserve. And he's not really interested in ruling over camp, because as it is, he's already enjoying himself. He's still the kind of person who wants to possess those things (and those people) that interest him, but there's nothing to cover up and no nosy lawyers to throw off the scent. (I would also point out that just because it's never revealed that he had a sexual relationship with Lana doesn't mean he wasn't. I mean, heck, Ema talks about how her sister hasn't been the same since the Incident; if you wanted to read that as a reaction to sexual trauma, you probably could. I'm not saying that I necessarily interpret it that way, but I think it's certainly a valid reading). I don't really follow your logic when you say that because Gant doesn't hit on Phoenix, it's thus out of character for him to flirt with, say, Cuthbert.

Why does he jump to a sexual relationship with Dean? Well, for one thing, Dean's pretty goddamn hot, so on a very basic level, there's that. Gant's got an impulsive streak, and enjoys earthly pleasures; why turn down an opportunity like this, when he stands to lose nothing by it? And there's the fact that physical intimacy makes Dean uncomfortable and yet it's something he clearly wants; this also makes Gant want to poke and prod and see what happens. I disagree that by reading a sexual element into his personality I'm somehow twisting his manipulative, controlling streak; nor do I see how any of his canon actions contradict this interpretation of his character. It may not be 100% based in canon, but what would be the point in RPing a character at all if I wasn't going to go in any way beyond what canon firmly establishes (especially when canon only shows you part of the character)?

Also, if you remain convinced that Gant is behaving like a sexual predator around Dean, I would urge you to examine their threads again; Dean almost always responds positively to Gant's advances, and on the occasions when Gant does something he doesn't like, Dean damn well lets him know about it (most recently, he threatened to break Gant's hands if Gant did a particular thing again, so. XD It would be hard to imagine that Dean's in much danger there).

I do appreciate your crit, and I will work on not having Gant be unnecessarily sexual, and on bringing other aspects of his character more to the fore. However, I don't plan on removing that part of his character, because as I see it, it is definitely part of him. It's a part based in headcanon, because Ace Attorney doesn't go into the sexuality of any of it's characters beyond what an E rating would allow, but that doesn't mean its characters all lead E-rated lives, and I think it would be more unrealistic to ignore Gant's sexuality altogether than to allow it to affect his interactions with people, especially when they're already interested in him.