Yep, a poll on Spike's role in AtS S5
Yes, this is prompted by the discussion in my post about Spike in AtS S5 plus a couple questions I've been meaning to ask for a while on the Buffy/Angel Chosen scene. Anyway, I'm not looking/expecting validation for my opinions here (I do get the idea that I'm in the minority). But this does seem to be a somewhat divisive issue among Spike-fans,
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Comments 69
Excellent set of questions.
(And re: Harmony, when even the episode's writer David Fury argues that something is wildly out of character, then I think it's safe to feel that it was out of character. Unfortunately, sex w/ Harm was a Joss dictate. But not even the guy who wrote the scene felt that it fit or worked. That's something, I suppose.)
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I could actually be okay with Spike having sex with Harmony. That, in itself, doesn't bother me. His overall callous and really cruel treatment of her that's more in line with how he treated her way back in BtVS S4 is what really irks me. They missed a great opportunity to show how Spike has changed with a soul.
Didn't know that Fury argued that it was OOC. This amuses me, especially considering past Spike-history with Fury.
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For "Angel's behaviour during Chosen" I picked "other" - because... well, because I think his behaviour is in-character if...
*sigh of self-indulgent embarrassment*
...because it's in-character if my fanfic happened.
Yes, I am a crazy person.
But seriously - I had this whole long fanfic full of phonecalls back and forth between Angel and Spike
- which came out of a piece of meta someone wrote about Angel and Spike
- which, in part, was a big attempt to explain Angel's behaviour during Chosen.
...so my fic is expanding on someone else's explanation of Angel's behaviour in Chosen - so, yes, as long as my fic happened (*another very embarrassed sigh*) then Angel is indeed in-character during Chosen.
*can't quite believe I said that*
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I've bookmarked the fic. Will check it out. Maybe it'll shed some light on the scene for me. ;)
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*cheers*
(I would, by the way, recommend reading the essay my fic came from, at some point- it's excellent, and does a very good job of analysing Spike, and Spike's role on AtS.)
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My preference for how Spike ends his story: fanfic! It ain't over, folks!
Also, Spike is dismissive of Harmony in AtS 5 (along with everybody else), but I don't think he's cruel with quite the same intensity he had on BtVS. Just saying there is a difference, although he's no prince.
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lol. Good answer. Also, people could consider the comics a worthy continuation of his story. :)
Also, Spike is dismissive of Harmony in AtS 5 (along with everybody else), but I don't think he's cruel with quite the same intensity he had on BtVS. Just saying there is a difference, although he's no prince.
Maybe not with the same intensity, but the overall impression I got was that he had a great deal of disdain for her, which just didn't sit well with me. They had an opportunity to show souled!Spike interacting at length with someone he'd known (intimately) while unsouled. This is a great chance to show how he's changed, and possibly forge a friendship of understanding between Harmony and Spike.
Instead, they have him fall back to old habits (Why? Cause it's funny?). It's just disappointing and not at all representative of the character growth I would have liked to have seen from him.
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Was Spike joking about vamping his mother? I thought he was trying (and failing) to be sympathetic to Wesley by sharing his own experiences.
Spike's Fred-related epiphany in S5 for me was "It's what she would have wanted... No. It's what I want." He finally learned to be a hero in his own right instead of just doing it to please the woman in his life.
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Does that make it in-character though? If Buffy in S7 started acting like she was S1 Buffy again, wouldn't that be OOC?
Was Spike joking about vamping his mother? I thought he was trying (and failing) to be sympathetic to Wesley by sharing his own experiences.
It was played as a joke (which...astounds me in a bad way). And it was certainly not on par with Spike's normal perceptiveness and, well, touch in dealing with people.
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Angel seemed remarkably casual and happy in 'Chosen' considering what he'd just been through in Angel S4. Willow seemed remarkably casual and happy in 'Orpheus' considering what she'd just been through in Buffy S7. But I don't think it's utterly unbelievable and completely out of character; they were on holiday, seeing old friends, getting away from it all, and able to relax for a short time before heading back...
It was played as a jokeI thought it was played as a meta-joke; both Spike and Angel were trying to be serious and empathetic, and the funny came from the repetition. (And the subject matter, of course ( ... )
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Heh. Just saw your post over there. And I partially agree. However, I don't think it's out of line to point out when a character has stretched the bounds of their current characterization. The Buffy/Angel scene does that. I thought it was a bizarre scene before I watched AtS. After having seen what was going on on AtS around that time, I find it even more bizarre. Sometimes, a fictional character is just out of character.
Angel left Buffy at the end of S3. After her death in S5, he kinda got over her. Then he had a huge love affair with Cordy that ended with Cordy in a coma in S4. He'd just practically lost his son and joined up with the Big Evil. And suddenly he's back in Sunnydale bugging Buffy about getting back together? The who what huh? There's such a thing ( ... )
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It surprised me; I didn't believe for one minute that she'd do that. But maybe she would in a high tension moment without thinking -- I'm very reluctant to say anything in canon could ever be out of character.
Angel's behavior during the End of Days/Chosen scene
This was completely impossible in the context of Home. It was done as if AtS and BtVS were actually in different dimensions or even completely different networks.
Did you like Buffy's "cookie dough" speech?
God no. She's young but not that immature. We all wanted to postpone adulthood but Buffy's been head of her household for three years and responsible for saving the world for eight. She's not cookie dough.
And she's responsible to herself for knowing what she wants if it shows up again after four seasons wanting her back.
Were you okay with how Spike's story ended in Chosen?
No. It had a certain charm but the sadness of giving up on his inner romantic disappointed me.
Overall, were you okay with Spike's part in ( ... )
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lol!
God no. She's young but not that immature. We all wanted to postpone adulthood but Buffy's been head of her household for three years and responsible for saving the world for eight. She's not cookie dough.
And she's responsible to herself for knowing what she wants if it shows up again after four seasons wanting her back.
Thanks for this. I've always wondered why people didn't like the cookie dough speech. It always appealed to me. It's not so much a statement as to her maturity, but more a simple acknowledgment that she doesn't need a guy in her life (like she realized in S5's I Was Made to Love You). She needs to find out herself first before getting into a relationship. And I actually rather like that message.
Also, like swsa says below, she was totally giving Angel the brush-off with that, and that just amuses me.
I suppose I was okay with it but the AtS writers ( ... )
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