Loyalists and Jumpers...not very fond of those terms

[gabrielleabelle]

Somebody in the comments to some entry (See how good I am at keeping track of this stuff?) linked to an interesting site about Buffy "Loyalists" and "Jumpers"To give a simple explanation, they propose that Buffy fandom is split among two general types of fans: The "Loyalists", who enjoy the entire series, and the "Jumpers", who feel the show had a

Comments

[penny_lane_42]

Hey! That was me with the link! So glad others found it interesting--I spent quite a lot of time combing through it myself.

I'm going to repeat what I said over on snickfic's thread where I linked it originally--the only place I participate in Buffy fandom outside of our lovely little Spuffy-corner of lj is whedonesque. And quite honestly, I think the "Jumper" view is the majority one there--or at least the majority of what is linked to. So much so that recently when a blogger who had just finished the show for the first time made a list of her favorite something (I forget what), the fact that the majority of them came from the later seasons (6 was a particular favorite of hers) was worth commenting on...and most of the commenter said that she must be one of those crazy Spike fans. As if there isn't much to love about the later seasons quite outside of Spike

[gabrielleabelle]

Heh. I'll admit, putting aside S1, S3 is my least favorite season. Not that I don't enjoy it. It just feels like an emotional void to me, and I usually find myself antsy to get to S4.

But then...I tend to think of S1-S3, and partially S4, as set-up for the later seasons. It lays the foundation. S5-S7 is actual story. (S4 is largely an adjustment season that bridges the high school years with the "almost adult" years)

I think both of your additions are good ones, and definitely ones I was surprised were left off the original site's list. I would also add Dawn to that list. A little later, yes, but so many people hate her so violently that I think she deserves a mention. If you were not-so-impressed by S4's villain or by Riley, hating Dawn must have seemed like the nail in the coffin.

Oh, true. Dawn was very unpopular to some peeps.

I find it all fascinating, too, in case you can't tell. Guess that makes me a nerd, too!

:)

[penny_lane_42]

Other than S1, S3 has the episodes I rewatch the least. Other than "Lovers Walk," I almost never rewatch it. I should make exceptions for "Helpless" and "Band Candy," I think, but I rarely do.

I totally, totally agree with the whole set-up vs. real story idea. I wouldn't have thought to phrase it like that on my own, but I find myself in total agreement.

Oh, true. Dawn was very unpopular to some peeps. I can't help but think that the rabid Dawn-haters (not just the people who think she's annoying, but the ones who hate her) totally missed the entire point of S5. But that's just me.

[gabrielleabelle]

Other than S1, S3 has the episodes I rewatch the least. Other than "Lovers Walk," I almost never rewatch it.

Doppelgangland FTW!!!

[snickfic]

I think the comment was in my Spike in S7 entry. From penny_lane_42, maybe?

I swear, someday I am gonna write that post about how the writers managed to integrate Spike, an antagonist, into the show as a regular.

*wants*

I've said it before, but I'm in fandom because of Spike. Specifically, Spike of FFL and beyond. The early seasons are fun and I enjoy watching them - although to some extent I'm with on not really being interested in high school. But S1-S4 are entertainment; S5-S7 and Spike are what made me fannish.

[gabrielleabelle]

Yep. penny_lane_42 has claimed credit for posting it. :)

And yep. See my comment above. I think the entire series is wonderful, and the earlier seasons are essential, but I see them primarily as setting the stage for events in the later seasons.

But I have a general apathy towards stories about high school. BtVS managed to overcome that. :)

[goldenusagi]

I am neither a loyalist nor a jumper. I think the quality of the series declined towards the end, as long running series are wont to do. There are parts of it I really don't like; I don't enjoy the entire series. But I hardly think it lost it after season 3. Though it's an interesting point about how the format changed from monster of the week to longer arcs.

[gabrielleabelle]

I definitely don't think they're rigid categories. There's obviously variations there. And most fans have a more complicated view on the series than that.

[rahirah]

That.

[me_llamo_nic]

I read a lot of the things on the phi-phenomenon site when the links made their latest round on whedonesque. (Because this is what I do; I lurk places and read the comments.) I guess I can kind of understand why some people jumped for those reasons as well as the Spike and formula points you made. It's certainly not an uncommon phenomenon. Some of the comments following 'Chosen' in the whedonesque archives were truly shocking to me. I'm one of those people who probably could have started on any of Buffy's 144 episodes and still decided to watch the whole thing, but it seems to be a rare thing.

Kind of lost my train of thought. I think my points were: Good post, *expresses nerd solidarity*, me likey Buffy.

[penny_lane_42]

Wow. That's a lot of vitriol in the post-"Chosen" thread there. The weird thing is, I agree about a lot of the sloppiness and outline-feel about the season...but for it to inspire that level of hate is something I cannot understand. And I liked "Chosen," by and large.

[me_llamo_nic]

There were bits that felt mildly contrived here and there, in 'Chosen' and in other episodes, but I still adore each episode of the show for one reason or another. (If nothing else, I have the standby of "Willow was in it." I totally like to pretend that I saw Dark Willow developing from the moment Xander chucked that dodgeball at her in 'The Pack' and she shot him that nasty look.) All joking aside, Buffy is awesome in many of it's individual epiosdes and most certainly as a whole.

[penny_lane_42]

I actually do think that S7 had some really sloppy writing...but then, I think S3 did, too. It's not a perfect show (such a one does not exist, alas), but it does characters and emotions better than any other I can think of. And you're right--there are always things to love in each episode. I can't think of a single one with no redeeming value.

Though I'm more of a "Buffy was in it" or a "Spike was in it" kind of girl.

I totally like to pretend that I saw Dark Willow developing from the moment Xander chucked that dodgeball at her in 'The Pack' and she shot him that nasty look. That is awesome! And even though I've only seen that episode a few times, I can totally remember that look with crystal clarity.

[beer_good_foamy]

You know, as much as I can understand the complaints made by the "jumpers" (to use a silly phrase), even if I disagree with them, this discussion still puzzles me. I got into Buffy fandom properly after watching the whole show twice - it was watching s6 for the first time that turned me from thinking it was a pretty good show to thinking it was fantastic - but once I started reading what people said about it, it felt like someone forgot to send me a memo. The later seasons aren't as good? Season 6 sucks? All the characters should have stayed exactly as they were in s2? I-I never knew! And here I thought I loved the show for growing and developing in what felt like a natural way

[me_llamo_nic]

Just thought I'd jump in.

it felt like someone forgot to send me a memo

*nods fervently*

Likewise with Spike's arc, I assume; it would have worked a lot better if it had... well, already been over with by the time the show started.

Isn't that Angel's arc?

[gabrielleabelle]

Isn't that Angel's arc?

Awesome.

[me_llamo_nic]

Suddenly I find myself giggling and thinking, "Be my deputy."

Shiny icon. Ignore the giggly man lurking in the corner with his laptop.