Comments | gabrielleabelle: Loyalists and Jumpers...not very fond of those terms

gabrielleabelle

Loyalists and Jumpers...not very fond of those terms

Jul 27, 2009 15:30

Somebody in the comments to some entry (See how good I am at keeping track of this stuff?) linked to an interesting site about Buffy "Loyalists" and "Jumpers"To give a simple explanation, they propose that Buffy fandom is split among two general types of fans: The "Loyalists", who enjoy the entire series, and the "Jumpers", who feel the show had a ( Read more... )

btvs

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beer_good_foamy July 27 2009, 21:21:15 UTC

You know, as much as I can understand the complaints made by the "jumpers" (to use a silly phrase), even if I disagree with them, this discussion still puzzles me. I got into Buffy fandom properly after watching the whole show twice - it was watching s6 for the first time that turned me from thinking it was a pretty good show to thinking it was fantastic - but once I started reading what people said about it, it felt like someone forgot to send me a memo. The later seasons aren't as good? Season 6 sucks? All the characters should have stayed exactly as they were in s2? I-I never knew! And here I thought I loved the show for growing and developing in what felt like a natural way.

(I once had someone comment on my LJ that if Joss really wanted to make a statement about sexual identity, for instance, he should have made Willow screamingly stereotypically gay right from the beginning and then kept her that way. That would have been a lot braver, apparently. Likewise with Spike's arc, I assume; it would have worked a lot better if it had... well, already been over with by the time the show started.)

me_llamo_nic July 27 2009, 21:26:56 UTC

Just thought I'd jump in.

it felt like someone forgot to send me a memo

*nods fervently*

Likewise with Spike's arc, I assume; it would have worked a lot better if it had... well, already been over with by the time the show started.

Isn't that Angel's arc?

gabrielleabelle July 27 2009, 21:39:06 UTC

Isn't that Angel's arc?

Awesome.

me_llamo_nic July 27 2009, 21:46:45 UTC

Suddenly I find myself giggling and thinking, "Be my deputy."

Shiny icon. Ignore the giggly man lurking in the corner with his laptop.

gabrielleabelle July 27 2009, 21:36:37 UTC

Oh, yes. I was surprised when I went online after watching the series, and I found out that the series started to suck in the later seasons. Apparently I missed that part.

The original TV Tropes entry on Spikeification was really...very maddening. It said outright that Spike's arc wasn't "character development" but was "woobiefication to appease the fangirls". It turned me off the site for a while.

Because, apparently, characters are supposed to stay EXACTLY THE SAME for seven years. *nods*

I once had someone comment on my LJ that if Joss really wanted to make a statement about sexual identity, for instance, he should have made Willow screamingly stereotypically gay right from the beginning and then kept her that way. That would have been a lot braver, apparently.

*points to icon*

mabus101 July 27 2009, 21:55:15 UTC

Is that a second line under the first one? It looks like another line of white text, but I can't read it.

gabrielleabelle July 27 2009, 22:05:07 UTC

Oh...I have no idea. Never looked at it too closely. :)

deird1 July 27 2009, 22:07:04 UTC

It turned me off the site for a while.

Same here. And I still tend to grit my teeth and glare at my computer screen when I accidentally stumble into Buffy-themed discussions over there...

gabrielleabelle July 27 2009, 22:09:33 UTC

Oh! Good! Somebody else had seen it! I was surprised to see they'd changed the entry.

beer_good_foamy July 27 2009, 22:15:18 UTC

Oh, I saw it too, but even when I disagree with the TVTropes people, I can't really hold it against the site. I love how it's all so magnificently subjective and snarky and still somehow manages to keep me trapped for hours hold together. Anyone can write anything there, and nobody will complain that it's insignificant. Geek heaven. :-)

beer_good_foamy July 27 2009, 22:12:20 UTC

It seems that some fans are *very* protective of their own views of How Things Should Be, and react badly to any attempt to point out that things aren't that binarily simple. What's the Homer Simpson quote? "I like my beer cold, my TV loud, and my homosexuals flaming!"

Makes me wonder what the Shakespeare fandom was like back in the day. "I don't accept that Romeo and Juliet die, the play ended after the third act as far as I'm concerned. Roliet 4-Eva!" "Wtf is up with Edmund changing his mind on his deathbed? Lear should have killed him!" "Hamlet an insane murderer? What are you smoking? He's clearly the hero."

gabrielleabelle July 27 2009, 22:19:55 UTC

Don't forget the Shakespeare slash fans. "Romeo/Mercutio for always! It was so meant to be!", "Hamlet and Claudius had so much UST going on!", "*sniff* Caesar/Brutus...they shared a miraculous love!"

ungemmed July 27 2009, 23:03:09 UTC

In my (admittedly limited) knowledge of Shakespeare fandom, apparently Hamlet/Horatio is the big thing.

deird1 July 27 2009, 22:03:30 UTC

it felt like someone forgot to send me a memo

Ditto. The first time I watched the show, when I'd almost finished season 5 one of my friends assured me "Don't worry - Dawn gets much less annoying later on."

...you think Dawn is annoying? What?

nothorse July 28 2009, 10:01:39 UTC

I think a lot of the Dawn hate came from people who were to young to see teenagers from the outside. :)

Of course, I consider Dawn one of my favourite characters and comparing with my own teenager, she is perfectly characterized. (Something similar happens with Kennedy. Kennedy is self-assured, not meek and knows her worth. I love those traits and love the fact that my teenager has definite similarities. If you're closer in age to the age range, I can see how Kennedy might be annoying)

In fact I think the split between the "Loyalists" and "Jumpers" might very well be a factor of age at he first viewing. If you watch the show as an adult looking back, a lot of the later seasons is far more poignant and bang-on-the-nail than when you watch it at the same age. It might hit a little close to home at that age.

I might also be completely off-base here. We need a poll.

shipperx July 27 2009, 22:50:32 UTC

Yeah, I've never quite understood the "They can't change! If they change they've ruined everything! I bought into it exactly as it was in Seasons 1/2 and they can't evolve from that. Ever!"

Sure, argument can be made when change isn't organic. But if a show doesn't organically change over time, then it's just dead in the water. They can't stay forever in a single mode or there's really nothing to do or say. It's just feeding a fetish.

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