I just have to say

[aidan83]

 
I am so tired of all of this bullshit hype about Thomas Beattie and how he is messing everything up for trans men.  For the record, he is not the first trans man to do so.  I don't know if he brought this media circus on himself or not, but I do know that he is not the first trans man to get pregnant.  In any case, now all kinds of people are all

Comments

Re: kind of ironic

[aidan83]

okay, touche. I am, of course, part of the problem and I do spend my time and energy in ways that are not necessarily most effective. However,I also chose to put my time, money, and energy into getting my master's so I can be a therapist who doesn't make anyone jump through hoops or play the game to get access to hormones. I also go out into the community and educate and I also choose to be a visible trans man to further the agenda that I've decided is important. It's not fair for me to judge anyone else's agenda, and sometimes I do it anyway, which makes me a hypocrite. And I recognize that I have all kinds of privilege which influence my space in the world and the way I negotiate the world. But I'm not saying anyone else has to do things my way, or at least I'm recognizing that it's not fair when I do say that. I am saying that I'm tired of infighting and gender policing in this and other cases

Re: kind of ironic

[daddysambiguity]

Then again, I stand by my belief that every time minorites spend time and energy tearing each other down instead of creating alliances, it is time and energy that could have been better spent.

I read an article for my multicultural seminar recently about this. One reason the dominant group is able to stay in power is they are able to keep the oppressed fighting among themselves. We live in fear, in anger, lashing out at eachother -- instead of at the system that keeps us angry and afraid.

Re: kind of ironic

[aidan83]

I can understand from where you are coming and I will admit that it is a position that I hadn't really thought through all that well. I don't think I have a stigmatized medical condition and wouldn't want to approach it that way so I can see why you wouldn't want to approach it my way. I still think that tearing each other down is a waste of time and energy no matter how we view it, though.

Re: kind of ironic

[aidan83]

No, I was trying to make it clear that I think that's exactly what's happening by saying that you don't have to want to approach things my way. We're coming from two inherently different places, and that's fair. I do think that "the binary" is to blame for both of our problems, because I don't think you would have a stigmatized medical condition if all people were allowed to express their gender identities in whatever ways felt best and if gender expression and biological sex weren't necessarily expected to match up. I think in that case you would just have a medical condition but it wouldn't be a stigmatized condition. I think that you would have easier access to hormones and surgery, that documents would be easier to change, and that you would be able to use the bathroom you want. Maybe you feel you have easy access to these things and I am making assumptions. And in any case, you don't have to agree with me on that issue in order for me to respect your position. I think the issue comes in when anyone assumes that theirs is

Re: kind of ironic

[turkishb]

just want to step in and ask why having an identity which is medically defined removes you from the minority community position? disabled people feel they have a minority community, and feel they have a political goal. i think since the medically defined, normative group of transmen do have political goals, it is a little disingenuous to say you're medical not political.

i guess my point being, i don't see how those are mutually exclusive. (though i certainly understand how you see it different from queer community politics.)

i understand you're trying very much to disavow the transsexual from your identity (i mean, even the phrase you use casts it as irrelevant as possible, no?). but i think ultimately, there is a political utility to identification that i don't see how you're going to make an end run around. ultimately, when you demand rights relevant to your position, your position will have to become the active part of your identity. i hope that makes sense, it seems a little obtuse now.

Re: does this make it clearer?

[turkishb]

That's not the issue I was bringing up. I understand your distinction between those methods and the queer methods. But I still don't see why you're removing minority-community politics. That's more what I'm trying to bring out. I used the disabled community as a counterpoint to try and bring that out. I don't think the trans community could work for their rights the same way women or gays or blacks have, either. But we can probably learn from their organizational structures and the cultural context that finally enfranchised them. (In all three cases, each seemed to be close to enfranchisement at least once before they finally reached it

Re: does this make it clearer?

[turkishb]

It's still a straw man. And showing my words doesn't prove your interpretation. I stand by my assertion it's a mischaracterization, and a shallow one at that. :/

Sleep well.

Re: does this make it clearer?

[turkishb]

I'm sorry, I'm not understanding you.

Re: does this make it clearer?

[turkishb]

yes, absolutely.