I always think that it was more than sex - but that the relationship happened before Angelus got cursed. TGIQ shows an Angelus and WtB who are unquestionably close - and since they are vampires, I can't see that they would have any problems enjoying themselves in all sorts of ways
( ... )
Which is pretty much what I guess I needed to see to figure out what was going on.
I don't know that "more than sex" is completely correct, at least from my view. I'm starting to think that it's more of an "other than sex" situation. In that the sex is totally seperate from their relationship, whatever it is.
Completely regardless of how the intimacy comment is interpreted, they have had sex at least once. I think I always kept waiting for that to be really important, or just to impact their relationship in some way, but I'm finally getting that it really just doesn't.
I agree with pretty much everything you just said.
Mostly, what was throwing me for so long was that I kept waiting and waiting for their sexual history to have impact on the rest of their relationship.
But it doesn't.
I think I figured that since it wasn't coming up, there was a reason it wasn't coming up. But there wasn't, it's just completely irrelevant to their relationship and to everything going on around them.
I'm going to disagree with you on the trust aspect, however. I do think that, while there isn't much compassion or communication going on, there's definitely some trust there. Not for the little stuff, no. But at the end of the day, I always felt that they both knew the other hand their back.
Oh yeah - when they truly needed help of some sort both of them would give their lives for the other. And snark about it the entire way!
Maybe it's me but I'm always content to think that part happens off screen - and that's really Doylist. From what I hear, the relationship between Spike and Angel was going to be a main point in season 6. :(
Just curious but what kind of action and reaction would you be looking for?
I know. I was disappointed that we didn't get to explore that some more. It came up a bit in the After the Fall series, but nothing really happened at the end of the day.
I don't know that I was looking for anything in particular. I think I just sort of expected some level of angst or something to come out of their sexual past. Mostly because Spike tends toward codependency and seems to think that having sex with Buffy will eventually make her love him, I guess I just figured that he would have similar expectations from Angel as well.
I suspect he did have those expectation around 100+ years ago. And maybe 100+ years ago they worked - which would be why he kept them (or part of why).
One thing that really fascinates me about Spike is that he actually seems to think in archetypes. The "goody good guys" will help because that's what they do. "This is a mystic creature - a kill or be killed creature". His mindset is geared toward certain expectations of certain types. Buffy and Dru were females who needed him.
I suspect that William, being a well dressed, well educated ponce bounced to the opposite extreme and became a working class mate (and Dru who was cockney was probably part of this)
Angel is not Angelus - so he has moved from one archetype to another. But both share the love of luxury, the notion that they are always in charge - looking down on, well everyone. They have both taken opposite archetypes, and neither will change. Whatever relationship they have fits in those parameters.
Thanks - this has just been a wonderful chance to think some things
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Which is pretty much what I guess I needed to see to figure out what was going on.
I don't know that "more than sex" is completely correct, at least from my view. I'm starting to think that it's more of an "other than sex" situation. In that the sex is totally seperate from their relationship, whatever it is.
Completely regardless of how the intimacy comment is interpreted, they have had sex at least once. I think I always kept waiting for that to be really important, or just to impact their relationship in some way, but I'm finally getting that it really just doesn't.
Reply
Reply
Mostly, what was throwing me for so long was that I kept waiting and waiting for their sexual history to have impact on the rest of their relationship.
But it doesn't.
I think I figured that since it wasn't coming up, there was a reason it wasn't coming up. But there wasn't, it's just completely irrelevant to their relationship and to everything going on around them.
I'm going to disagree with you on the trust aspect, however. I do think that, while there isn't much compassion or communication going on, there's definitely some trust there. Not for the little stuff, no. But at the end of the day, I always felt that they both knew the other hand their back.
Reply
Maybe it's me but I'm always content to think that part happens off screen - and that's really Doylist. From what I hear, the relationship between Spike and Angel was going to be a main point in season 6. :(
Just curious but what kind of action and reaction would you be looking for?
Reply
I don't know that I was looking for anything in particular. I think I just sort of expected some level of angst or something to come out of their sexual past. Mostly because Spike tends toward codependency and seems to think that having sex with Buffy will eventually make her love him, I guess I just figured that he would have similar expectations from Angel as well.
Reply
One thing that really fascinates me about Spike is that he actually seems to think in archetypes. The "goody good guys" will help because that's what they do. "This is a mystic creature - a kill or be killed creature". His mindset is geared toward certain expectations of certain types. Buffy and Dru were females who needed him.
I suspect that William, being a well dressed, well educated ponce bounced to the opposite extreme and became a working class mate (and Dru who was cockney was probably part of this)
Angel is not Angelus - so he has moved from one archetype to another. But both share the love of luxury, the notion that they are always in charge - looking down on, well everyone. They have both taken opposite archetypes, and neither will change. Whatever relationship they have fits in those parameters.
Thanks - this has just been a wonderful chance to think some things
Reply
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