I have thoughts. Yes, Spike tends toward extreme romantic obsession. However, he also tends to be antagonistic and dismissive toward nearly every man he runs across. I don't think most people have quite the gender divide that Spike seems to. I can buy him as bisexual, but bi-romantic is a harder sell for me, if that makes any sense.
I've read some great meta exploring what may have happened with William's father, making a case for him abandoning his family, rather than just dying, which is what I always assumed. That interpretation would explain a lot about Spike's basic psychology. He's got a lot of mommy/daddy issues, and it would take an awful lot for him to put his romantic hopes into another man. I also imagine he would assume that another guy would end up acting like, well, a guy - not committed, likely to leave, emotionally withholding.
Not to say that it's impossible for this to happen, or that I don't enjoy reading slash fic, but I just don't see Spike as expecting to get the kind of emotional closeness and comfort from a guy that he expects/hopes from a woman. Even (and especially) Angel.
Well, that's good. I was just thinking about how Spike isn't messed up enough already.
Oh, dear lord. Poor guy.
"...acting like, well, a guy - not committed, likely to leave, emotionally withholding." Such streotyping! *gasp*
Of course, as I was typing this, I wished my wife a happy anniversary and she told me, "Darn, I thought you might not remember." Oh boy.
Everything you just said makes so much sense, though.
I think, for the most part, my surprise is completely on me, and doesn't really say much about the writers or Joss.
I mean, I drew conclusions early on in the series, and when they were only somewhat confirmed ("C'mon!") I didn't really stop to think on how little was really being said.
And maybe I have somewhat of a subconscious inclination to either divorce sex and emotion entirely, or see them as hopelessly intertwined, and not really consider a middle ground. With Spike and Angel, they're both there, but they really aren't related.
I do wonder if I wasn't holding out all this time, though. A part of me kept expecting something more to come from this mention, since it's the first time the topic has come up with both of them present. But it didn't. It was the same as it has been every other time it's been brought up.
"...acting like, well, a guy - not committed, likely to leave, emotionally withholding." Such streotyping! *gasp*
Heh. It's a very stereotypical view, one that Spike disproves at every turn, but one I suspect he buys into...for other men. Silly vampire.
I wouldn't hold my breath looking for the writer(s) to expand on the Spangel, except in a very nudge, nudge way. And, of course, my opinion is that Angel doesn't deserve to have Spike, and it wouldn't be an interesting story to have Spike, once again, pining after someone who can never give him the love he craves. That story has been told.
I think I spent a long time confused as to why Spangel was treated only as something funny, and I'm now finally figuring out that it's being treated that way because that really, truly is all that it is.
I would agree that Angel hasn't earned affection from Spike, but I'm not really sure anyone else ever actually has either. Cecilfrek couldn't care less him, Drusilla seems to border on serial cheater, and Buffy was physically, verbally, emotionally, and sexually abusive.
Angel being a dick isn't quite enough for me to think Spike wouldn't direct some pining his way, but I really do like what you said about his general inability to connect or even communicate with men. I think that's the connection I've been missing.
I've read some great meta exploring what may have happened with William's father, making a case for him abandoning his family, rather than just dying, which is what I always assumed. That interpretation would explain a lot about Spike's basic psychology. He's got a lot of mommy/daddy issues, and it would take an awful lot for him to put his romantic hopes into another man. I also imagine he would assume that another guy would end up acting like, well, a guy - not committed, likely to leave, emotionally withholding.
Not to say that it's impossible for this to happen, or that I don't enjoy reading slash fic, but I just don't see Spike as expecting to get the kind of emotional closeness and comfort from a guy that he expects/hopes from a woman. Even (and especially) Angel.
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Well, that's good. I was just thinking about how Spike isn't messed up enough already.
Oh, dear lord. Poor guy.
"...acting like, well, a guy - not committed, likely to leave, emotionally withholding." Such streotyping! *gasp*
Of course, as I was typing this, I wished my wife a happy anniversary and she told me, "Darn, I thought you might not remember." Oh boy.
Everything you just said makes so much sense, though.
I think, for the most part, my surprise is completely on me, and doesn't really say much about the writers or Joss.
I mean, I drew conclusions early on in the series, and when they were only somewhat confirmed ("C'mon!") I didn't really stop to think on how little was really being said.
And maybe I have somewhat of a subconscious inclination to either divorce sex and emotion entirely, or see them as hopelessly intertwined, and not really consider a middle ground. With Spike and Angel, they're both there, but they really aren't related.
I do wonder if I wasn't holding out all this time, though. A part of me kept expecting something more to come from this mention, since it's the first time the topic has come up with both of them present. But it didn't. It was the same as it has been every other time it's been brought up.
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Heh. It's a very stereotypical view, one that Spike disproves at every turn, but one I suspect he buys into...for other men. Silly vampire.
I wouldn't hold my breath looking for the writer(s) to expand on the Spangel, except in a very nudge, nudge way. And, of course, my opinion is that Angel doesn't deserve to have Spike, and it wouldn't be an interesting story to have Spike, once again, pining after someone who can never give him the love he craves. That story has been told.
Reply
Poor Spike.
I think I spent a long time confused as to why Spangel was treated only as something funny, and I'm now finally figuring out that it's being treated that way because that really, truly is all that it is.
I would agree that Angel hasn't earned affection from Spike, but I'm not really sure anyone else ever actually has either. Cecilfrek couldn't care less him, Drusilla seems to border on serial cheater, and Buffy was physically, verbally, emotionally, and sexually abusive.
Angel being a dick isn't quite enough for me to think Spike wouldn't direct some pining his way, but I really do like what you said about his general inability to connect or even communicate with men. I think that's the connection I've been missing.
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A very primal sort that is generally not considered mature and is, more often than not, rather unhelpful in pretty much every situation.
But often amusing all the same.
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