(no subject)
So kichara got linked to a lovely little yaoi bashing piece, which I was mostly amused with when I was reading. I was amused because the hatred was so obvious that it lost all journalistic substance and managed to nullify the author's point quite nicely. Any solid ground he might have had was lost once he went off on a paragraph-long tirade about how much he enjoyed cutting up various volumes of yaoi with his woodcutting tools. I tend to shrug off the opinions of extremists, no matter what the subject.
kichara tried nicely to point out some flaws in his "logic", but was not only dismissed, but was called a "pathetic loser" in the process. I'm not sure I know of many writers of articles who would insult their readership like that. For half a second, I considered jumping in to defend her when my smarts woke up--that was exactly what he wanted. Why else would you call someone you don't even know a pathetic loser, except to piss people off and gain attention in the grand tradition of the Shock Jock?
So I refuse to reply there. He's either ignorant about the subject he's writing about, or writing it for sheer shock value, and neither one is worth more time than what I have to say about it here (and even this is probably too much time and attention).
For fun, here's his reply to her:
Sorry, don’t buy it. That’s like saying there’s no difference between, say, a Harlequin Romance and Hustler. Both may show interaction and, I suppose, romance between two characters, but one remains romance, the other becomes pornography. In fact, the manga market has an entire genre that is largely dedicated to romance, that being shojo.
Be honest with yourself, you’re in it because you’re a pathetic loser.
What I love most about this statement is that it shows his complete lack of knowledge of the genre of which he speaks. Yaoi is FULL of titles that have no sex at all. And even in the ones that have sex, there are many titles were you get the implication of sex more than a full-blown peep show. That's hardly Hustler standards.
He gets a lot of other things wrong in the body of the article. For one thing, he sees the way men and women view porn as equal, completely ignoring the differences in the way we perceive sexuality. The statement kichara refers to in the first place claims that women only like yaoi so that we can be the straight woman between two gay men and turn them straight. Ummmm...what?
First of all, in all the conversations I've had about why women like yaoi, I've *never* heard that we want to make gay men straight as a reason. We have bishounen in shoujo that are straight...why would we want that? Hell, half the time I'm turning straight ones gay in my fics!
Second...they're fictional characters! Why would we care if they're gay or straight? Their lives end as soon as we put down the book!
Third, I believe, on the whole, that women do the whole "self-insertion" less than men. I can't speak for everyone, but when I'm reading a manga, I don't put myself in it at all. I'm interested in the *characters*, not myself. And how would one visualize one's self with 2-D men, I wonder...would you flatten yourself out, or inflate them? It *is* a problem...
It seems to me that he's comparing yaoi DIRECTLY to dirty magazines, which you just open up and go to town with. To insert ourselves like that, maybe he's thinking we take our hardcore yaoi titles straight to bed with us. Some of us might, occasionally (I can't speak for everyone), but it's not like it's a playgirl...we're reading a story there. Kinda hard to READ when you're busy elsewhere...
So I have to conclude that his correlation between yaoi and girl-on-girl porn for men is wayyy off base. Women pOrn differently than men, k thnx.
Speaking of which, he also calls girl-on-girl porn for men "lesbian porn" and yaoi "gay porn". I think fans of real lesbian and gay porn would have issues with that...
Basically, the whole article can be broken down as a child having a fit because the toy he likes is getting pushed off the shelves by that new show he hates, and in his anger, he lashes out without a lick of research or common sense in his opinions...also known as a temper tantrum.
Here's a clue, buddy. You want to REALLY know why women like yaoi? Ask. Most of us have thought enough about it that we know, and most the fans I know aren't shy about telling you why. After all, I didn't wake up one day and realize that I liked reading about two gay characters getting it on without taking a good, long look inside and going, "Huh. Where the hell did THAT come from?"
Especially after being raised Christian in the South.
kichara tried nicely to point out some flaws in his "logic", but was not only dismissed, but was called a "pathetic loser" in the process. I'm not sure I know of many writers of articles who would insult their readership like that. For half a second, I considered jumping in to defend her when my smarts woke up--that was exactly what he wanted. Why else would you call someone you don't even know a pathetic loser, except to piss people off and gain attention in the grand tradition of the Shock Jock?
So I refuse to reply there. He's either ignorant about the subject he's writing about, or writing it for sheer shock value, and neither one is worth more time than what I have to say about it here (and even this is probably too much time and attention).
For fun, here's his reply to her:
Sorry, don’t buy it. That’s like saying there’s no difference between, say, a Harlequin Romance and Hustler. Both may show interaction and, I suppose, romance between two characters, but one remains romance, the other becomes pornography. In fact, the manga market has an entire genre that is largely dedicated to romance, that being shojo.
Be honest with yourself, you’re in it because you’re a pathetic loser.
What I love most about this statement is that it shows his complete lack of knowledge of the genre of which he speaks. Yaoi is FULL of titles that have no sex at all. And even in the ones that have sex, there are many titles were you get the implication of sex more than a full-blown peep show. That's hardly Hustler standards.
He gets a lot of other things wrong in the body of the article. For one thing, he sees the way men and women view porn as equal, completely ignoring the differences in the way we perceive sexuality. The statement kichara refers to in the first place claims that women only like yaoi so that we can be the straight woman between two gay men and turn them straight. Ummmm...what?
First of all, in all the conversations I've had about why women like yaoi, I've *never* heard that we want to make gay men straight as a reason. We have bishounen in shoujo that are straight...why would we want that? Hell, half the time I'm turning straight ones gay in my fics!
Second...they're fictional characters! Why would we care if they're gay or straight? Their lives end as soon as we put down the book!
Third, I believe, on the whole, that women do the whole "self-insertion" less than men. I can't speak for everyone, but when I'm reading a manga, I don't put myself in it at all. I'm interested in the *characters*, not myself. And how would one visualize one's self with 2-D men, I wonder...would you flatten yourself out, or inflate them? It *is* a problem...
It seems to me that he's comparing yaoi DIRECTLY to dirty magazines, which you just open up and go to town with. To insert ourselves like that, maybe he's thinking we take our hardcore yaoi titles straight to bed with us. Some of us might, occasionally (I can't speak for everyone), but it's not like it's a playgirl...we're reading a story there. Kinda hard to READ when you're busy elsewhere...
So I have to conclude that his correlation between yaoi and girl-on-girl porn for men is wayyy off base. Women pOrn differently than men, k thnx.
Speaking of which, he also calls girl-on-girl porn for men "lesbian porn" and yaoi "gay porn". I think fans of real lesbian and gay porn would have issues with that...
Basically, the whole article can be broken down as a child having a fit because the toy he likes is getting pushed off the shelves by that new show he hates, and in his anger, he lashes out without a lick of research or common sense in his opinions...also known as a temper tantrum.
Here's a clue, buddy. You want to REALLY know why women like yaoi? Ask. Most of us have thought enough about it that we know, and most the fans I know aren't shy about telling you why. After all, I didn't wake up one day and realize that I liked reading about two gay characters getting it on without taking a good, long look inside and going, "Huh. Where the hell did THAT come from?"
Especially after being raised Christian in the South.