Those That Forget The Past, Blah, Blah, Blah

[flameelf]

Anymore, no one seems to agree who said this first:

http://jaywalker.ca/Jaywalker_Magazine/Columns/Publisher's%20Notes/forget_the_past.htm

I know the first time I saw it, it was attributed to Friedrich Nietzsche. But it's an absolute truism, honestly.

Some of the greatest oafs have quoted wonderful things--when Ozzy Osbourne got it right with his

Comments

"The devil made me do it"...what bullshit.

[ms_daisy_cutter]

You believe this could "only happen to someone like HIM" at your own peril. It can happen to any one of us, and does every day.

It didn't "happen to" Chris Benoit. He chose to kill his wife and child. And men who aren't misogynist assholes who think that their wives and children are property that they can "take with them" when they kill themselves are not going to emulate him.

I'm a stone atheist and I thoroughly reject the idea that evil is some sort of "presence." It's a choice that people make. The religious/"spiritual" idea of it as an invading force is rationalization that enables people not to have to admit that they chose to do something wrong.

If Chris Benoit hadn't been a much-adored athlete, but some random wanker in the news, I wonder how many people would be choking up over him, rather than saying, "Good riddance"? There's another thing - when the fuck did we start believing that sports players were semi-deities? They have specialized physical skills. That's it. Benoit no more deserves our pity than O.J. Simpson did

Re: "The devil made me do it"...what bullshit.

[flameelf]

Sadly, you're ranting about a lot of things I did NOT say, and you've managed to pass by what I DID.

I actually SAID he made his own choices.

You utterly disembowl your arguments when you don't pay attention to what is being said in the first place. I even made a post some months back telling people if they were incapable of understanding simple English, to just go away.

I'm sure you have some strong opinions, but if you go back and actually READ what I wrote, you'll see most of what you said has nothing to do with my post.

Please withhold your (non-specific)righteous pontifications for your own LJ.

Nechtan

[flameelf]

You have the same problem your friend has--you can't seem to read what was written and you're reacting from what YOU THINK is there.

He's not my hero and what you appear to be saying in response "to me" is actually your ideas separate from what was written. Do you flame other people's LJs for fun?

There's no point in proving anything to someone who does not pay attention to the words being spoken or written. You will continue to argue from what you THINK I'm saying rather than what I AM saying.

Learn English. It's helpful.

Nechtan

[cissa]

I guess I don't really believe there's a force of Evil outside ourselves, either. Now, I've had experiences with "suicidal ideation" and the like, and sometimes those thoughts felt like they were coming from outside me, and sometimes they didn't- but for me, this largely had to do with my state vis-a-vis depression at the time, because such thoughts when one is reasonably happy are just weird. And knowing that, it made it easier for me to discount them when depressed... but I'm convinced, for myself, that these have much to do with my own mental health and wiring, and not a force of Evil outside me. Oddly, the inappropriate way they pop up sometimes makes me even more convinced of this; it's not like they're lying in wait for me when I'm vulnerable! It's just a way my brain/mind heads sometimes

[flameelf]

...Do you ever wonder WHY a reasonably happy young woman should consider such odd, suicidal thoughts a relatively 'normal' thought process of your brain

[cissa]

OK. Basically, I have a fairly ugly history of abuse as a kid. Therefore, odd thoughts etc. do not strike me as anomalous; they seem to be an aspect of the ways I learned to cope, and as I have gotten older and grown, I've learned better ways. So, yeah, I think suicidal ideation etc. IS fairly normal- and possibly even healthy-ish- under some circs. I've experimented with cutting, too, and it was helpful at some points, but I didn't get addicted. I don't think it made the internal stuff go away; I do think the endorphins helped me deal, at specific times

[flameelf]

I appreciate your sharing so much that is personal to you. I, too, am someone who grew up in a very abusive situation and am happy to say I've done better with my life than the tools I was sent out into the world with. I feel that's how it is for you, too

[waster60268]

's both the greatest and the worst thing ever to be able to choose good or evil. i firmly believe that both of these things exist; i believe there are absolutes out there somewhere, but i also believe that we can never know exactly where the lines between them are drawn; it wouldn't work if we could see them clearly, and it wouldn't work if we didn't have the ability to choose [what we perceive to be] one or the other, either. [there's this perfect messy elegance to the system.. as usual.]

['m not sure how mr. lewis' description of evil as a perversion of good might fit into all this, but i like it..]

[flameelf]

I agree with you on most of this, but I believe it's more clear on what is Good and what is Evil than most of us want to admit. There ARE grey areas, but some things are a slam-dunk

[waster60268]

mhm.. i've had plenty of arguments with friends about good and evil; typically, they start by saying that it's all relative and subjective; i then typically ask them to give me their feelings towards puppy mutilation or baby rape or historical mass genocides, and typically they can't deny that they think such actions are wrong. everyone had morals, [whether intact or twisted,] and that's got to mean something.

this brings up something i forgot to mention; if you fill yourself with goodness, there's generally less room for evil [and the goodness tends to revolt at the introduction of evil, so it serves a double purpose.*] to do that, though, you must first acknowledge that good and evil exist. lack of distinction and awareness leaves one open for a fall. we don't have the *choice* your first respondents referred to unless there's first something to choose between.

[flameelf]

*Stands up and applauds you*

Absolutely right!!!!

There used to be NO QUESTION of good and evil, but it all became relative and subjective somewhere in the last couple of centuries.

I don't think we did ourselves any favours by blurring the boundaries.

Nechtan :)