Fun and games in South Carolina

[eyes_of_cyrene]

Don't worry if you beat up your significant other... you'll be outta jail in 30 days (that's assuming, ha, you get the maximum sentence).

But for pity's sake, don't whip out your gamecock and set it on another gamecock if you live in South Carolina

Comments

[teamnoir]

I don't see an email address for you and your comment is currentl screened, so I'll continue here

[eyes_of_cyrene]

I'm aware that there are many professionals in the "scene" as you call it who are trained to deal with these issues. I'm also well aware there are plenty of former victims in this scene. I'm aware there are abusers in the community; I've listened to submissives like the original poster on that community who weren't sure if they were being abused or not. I make no judgement of the lifestyle in the least. So please don't make any assumptions about my viewpoint based on what I do for a living

[teamnoir]

Been there. Done that. And frankly, you're out of line.

If you're only purpose here is to tell me that I'm wrong, then I don't see any point to continuing this exchange.

[eyes_of_cyrene]

Actually, I've been remarkably restrained given that my first response was, "What the flying FUCK

[teamnoir]

God almighty, man, do you not see how your thrice-damned statement could be taken?! "BDSM is a great resource for former abusers..." you may as well say "Come find your next victim right here, we have 'em in all shapes and sizes and submissive styles..."

Nope. I didn't see that. And it doesn't bother me one whit. If I were going to find a community to which to entice abusers, the bdsm community would be my first choice. The community is strong and is well suited for dealing with abusive transgressions. It's what we do.

I stated in both my comments to you that I thought I understood where you were coming from, and you've not bothered to acknowledge that, nor attempt to explain your position any further. Just restated it.Because you can't possibly understand where I'm coming from if it is so obviously and inarguably wrong from your perspective. You think you understand my position and you think it's wrong. I hear you. What more would you like me to say

[eyes_of_cyrene]

I was not, as a matter of fact, looking for a pissing match. I was looking for you to explain to me HOW you came to the conclusion that you did. I was looking for some realization that how you may have meant your statement was not necessarily how people would TAKE it

[teamnoir]

I was looking for some realization that how you may have meant your statement was not necessarily how people would TAKE it.

What people? You? Who specifically are we discussing here?

I said I thought I understood where you were coming from because it did NOT seem that you were talking about abuse...

Oh, but I am. I may not be using your definition of abuse, but I am using an extremely common one.

I think, too, there is a considerable difference in perspective here, because you're looking at this in terms of community... whereas I know that abusers don't come into a "community," they prey on people singly. The community may or may not become aware of this. Just who do you think they're preying on if not members of the community

[eyes_of_cyrene]

I'm going to try to respond to your comments individually, because you raise different points in each of them that I think need to be addressed individually.

What people?

The general public. Anybody and anyone who read your comment. Abusers. Victims. Purple-spotted people eaters.

Oh, but I am. I may not be using your definition of abuse, but I am using an extremely common one.It's not MY definition of abuse. It's the definition of abuse used professionally worldwide. An extremely common definition of abuse? WHAT definition of abuse? The general public's definition of abuse is pretty narrow, and fallacious. It centers around hitting, around physical abuse. And I'm sorry, but by that definition, a whole heck of a lot of BDSM behaviors fall under abuse. I don't consider BDSM intrinistically an abusive lifestyle. Quite the opposite, in fact. And this is due to the CONSENSUAL nature of BDSM

[teamnoir]

ABUSE=NONCONSENSUALI disagree. Nonconsensual suggests abuse, but isn't conclusive

[eyes_of_cyrene]

The minute you compared victims of violence to felons, you lost me entirely. The comparison is so ludicrous, I'm not even going to bother addressing that.

Abuse is, by definition, a pattern. Not a one-time transgression that you bring up. A pattern of behaviors, of transgressions if you will, designed to shift the balance of power from one party to the other. It's not a one-time, or two-time, violation of someone's boundaries. Mistakes are not the same thing as patterns.

I don't understand how you can not see the difference between what you're talking about and what I'm talking about.

It's also illegal for a boss to have sex with an underling - again, sexual abuse, even if it's consensual.

It isn't illegal for a boss to have sex with an underling. It IS stupid, on both their parts. It IS illegal for the boss to blackmail or coerce the underling based on their sexual relationship. I addressed that in the last comment.

[teamnoir]

The minute you compared victims of violence to felons, you lost me entirely. The comparison is so ludicrous, I'm not even going to bother addressing that.

It's not ludicrous. It's a daily reality. Kidnap vs arrest is a fine line. the key distinction is social support. People taken off the street in some third world countries are difficult to judge. Have they been kidnapped? Or have they been arrested? The decision largely depends on whether you respect the people involved as agents of a valid government.

Abuse is, by definition, a pattern. Not a one-time transgression that you bring up.

Are you really trying to argue that an incident which occurs once can't possibly be abusive because it's only occurred once?

[eyes_of_cyrene]

You cannot change the terms in midstream. Third world countries? Kidnapping/arrest?

Comparing convicted criminals to victims is ludicrous for one simple reason: Criminals have done something wrong. Their imprisonment is due to a wrongdoing on their part. A consequence.

A victim of a crime has done nothing to deserve being victimized. Period.

Of course I'm not arguing that a one-time action can't be abusive.

If you're going to slap the term "Abuser" on someone, then, yes, there needs to be a pattern. I'm not saying an ACTION can't be abusive in a vacuum. It can. But just because a man has sex with another man once, that doesn't make him gay. Just because an abusive action occurs once, that doesn't make someone an abuser.

[teamnoir]

Criminals have done something wrong. Their imprisonment is due to a wrongdoing on their part.Yes, but wrong according to whom? If attempting to negotiate for hostage release counts as "wrong", or if being white or rich or simply american counts as "wrong", then I'm sure you're right. But I'm not convinced that they do. If you believe these things count as "wrong", then sure, they are criminals being punished. (we can skip the question of whether it's a just punishment for now). But if you see these things as acceptable, even in countries who believe otherwise, then I think the line blurs considerably

[teamnoir]

I've been trying to keep the channel open here

Yes, you have. And I commend you for it, though I suspect that opinion won't mean much to you either. Most folks would have allowed the exchange to degenerate into pointless name calling or simply abandoned it long ago. So brava.

Simply stated: Abuse is about power and control. Nonconsensual. And abusers are absolutely masterful when it comes to hiding what they're doing, or finding justification for it.I disagree. Much person to person physical violence falls into this category, yes, but it's far from the only form abuse might take. Physical abuse tends to be fairly obvious to the victim - it hurts, it feels wrong

[eyes_of_cyrene]

Thank you for sharing your experiences in the community. I'm glad to hear that there are strategies you've seen that the community uses to address abusive behavior. I've seen some of it firsthand, but not enough to be confident... and groups differ from place to place.

I'm going to try to address several things here, but I have to say, your statement of:

Sexual abuse is a completely different category. Sexual abuse may even be consensual between the participants. It may feel good. It may seem natural and right. Sexual activity between, say, a teenager and a step parent, (which seems to be an extremely common situation), isn't right, according to our current social norms. It's abusive. Even if they both want it, even if they aren't blood related, it's still abusive.Just set my back up

[teamnoir]

Sexual abuse is never consensual. Period.So then, if I'm talking to a woman who has had sex with her father since she was 14 and claims the relationship is consensual, (she's now past the age of consent), in your mind, this is not and never was abuse? Even though it's illegal, actionable, and considered abusive by the bulk of the western psychological community