the collective makes my stomach turn

[expanding_x_man]

I have some kind of deep aversion to collectivism, to "community" if you will, even though I am, from one side of my family, part of an actual, real-life tribe. I mean, an American Indian tribe, or First Nations as we are called up north - Blackfoot, Blood or Kainai band. Still, something in me just cannot stand the actual collectivist idea.

Comments

[garnethorse]

In order for a collective to work, or for an individual to function within a collective without losing ones own autonomy of thought and action, many skills have to be developed. Communication skills, observational skills, awareness, what Jung calls "individuation", boundaries, critical thinking - the list goes on. Without these skills, the collective becomes a place for the individual to get lost, to lose power, to submit. Most people have barely begun to develop these skills, don't know where to look to learn them, and are certainly never taught them, which is why we see what you and I see too damn often - that "insect-like hive mind", with people jumping on band wagons, following trends, acting as a mass without thinking, etc. I agree with you, Max, it's ugly and disgusting.
Where you and I differ is that I hold out HOPE for humans to evolve and develop as, one at a time, individuals evolve and then teach or model those skills. I define "progressive" as someone who holds out this kind of hope and is willing to work for it. I have been willing to work for it within a collective, but with limits derived from my own critical thinking, because learning and teaching these evolutionary skills is my reason for living, according to my own vision.

[expanding_x_man]

Yes, that's hopeful.

There's nothing wrong with people tossing together to do something, live together or figure something out. We all have to, and it is what makes life at least partially enjoyable. I guess my resistance is to the "collective" as an ideal, as I see preached online and elsewhere, the Marxist ideal which is not at all about individuation, or individualism -- but about group think and obeisance to the "group" as such, as primary to allegiance. We all have necessary allegiances, certainly - but that ideal is too stained for me with blood (communism) or less noxiously (sp) unintended consequences.

I do hold out great hope for humankind, although certainly we must start with where we are. But, we are not really in such a bad place in many respects.

Any way -- we can talk about this soon, if we want - (or not) since we will be seeing more of each other! :)