More help with the filly!

Apr 15, 2010 20:28

So I posted a little while ago about a filly I own who is terrified about fly spray ( community.livejournal.com/equestrian/5938517.html#cutid1). I posted an update saying how my gf and I had started working together to spray her and get her used to it, focusing on the suggestions we were given. Well, it seemed to work at first, and we have been ( Read more... )

behaviour issues, advice, fly control/spray, personal: horse update, green horses, groundwork, ground manners, horse behaviour, fears, stallions/studly behavior/gelding/etc, mares, rearing

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penella22 April 16 2010, 03:48:42 UTC
Desensitizing training 101; QUIT WHEN THEY BEHAVE.

Horses are motivated by pressure. We put pressure on their sides until they move, pressure on their mouth to turn...we use pressure to *motivate* them. But it's the release that teaches. It's the fact that we relieve that pressure that teaches them they did the 'right' thing. So while your filly is acting up, let her move...let her wiggle and jump and rear and whatever (and put her on a longe line so you can follow her but give her enough space you won't get kicked). But as long as she misbehaves, keep spraying her. The instant she stands still or relaxes a bit or in any way shows the slightest try, then STOP INSTANTLY and reward her. Carrots, treats, pets, scritches, verbal praise, whatever.

Rest a little, then rinse and repeat. Horses are very smart. And they figure out pretty quickly what to do as long as we are looking for that slightest try and letting them know it equals rest and comfort.

Fly spray isn't fun. It's hardly surprising she would rear or buck or run off to try and avoid it. It may be scary to her, or merely something she doesn't *want* to do. As long as she doesn't seem completely panicked, persist. (If she does seem completely panicked, time to back up a few steps and desensitize her to less upsetting things, like just the sound, or just a spray bottle filled with water (doesn't smell as bad) or you carrying the bottle and rubbing it on her neck and shoulders...)

I would carry a crop if you need to defend your space, or even a twig from a tree.

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colebaltblue April 16 2010, 05:01:10 UTC
This.

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greyskyridge April 16 2010, 06:20:54 UTC
I mostly agree with this, except I don't really agree with letting her move around until she behaves and then stopping to spray.

I think that method teaches her to accept flyspray, eventually.

But if you address the moving around by correcting it while she is trying to evade the spray, (i.e., tug on the lead with a "Stand!") she will learn "Stand for this even though you don't like it."

Then if there is something scary on the trail, where you DON'T have until "eventually" but you need her to "stand for this even though you don't like it", you will have already trained that response.

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rideonawhim April 16 2010, 12:24:55 UTC
We do stop as soon as she stops moving, and we do ask her to stand while we spray. She started rearing yesterday whenever we brought the bottle near her. We have worked just rubbing the bottle on her and it isn't that she is afraid of the bottle. She just doesn't want it and I don't want to get hurt. I am liking the suggestions I am getting on here though.

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greyskyridge April 16 2010, 13:23:15 UTC
I thought about your post some more and honestly, if you are going to be bringing along a young horse, I think you need to involve a trainer.

Somebody with a lot of experience on being assertive without being aggressive and good timing and feel could have easily nipped this in the bud. It just would never have become an issue.

I am not saying that everyone has to be a professional. It really is OK to be inexperienced, and the only way to get from inexperienced to experienced is to just get in there and do it.

But you are going to need help from a pro if you want to smoothly get past this hump without it getting worse. If a horse starts to stand up you need to KNOW what to do, deeply enough that it is a split second reflex.
I would put this horse in for 30 days NOW and GO WITH HER so that you get 30 days too.

Right now I am riding a mare that went through three owners after her breeder because none of them could make heads or tails of her. Her current owner has been trying to get her to be ridable (pleasantly) for two years.
The first day I got on it it was backing up, threatening to go up, blowing up at the aids, etc etc etc.
I have been working with her and now there is NO backing up, NO threatening to go up, NO blowing up at the aids, and we can trot obediently around the ring and get to work.

It took me three days.
Based on the improvement in the horse the owner now wants to send her to a horse show in three weeks and is considering training the horse for Nationals in October. It went from "I am thisclose to putting this horse in a can" to "Let's see if she can go to Grand Nationals" in less than a week. The horse is 11 years old and has made numerous owners so frustrated they just dumped her on somebody else. For days and weeks and years multiple owners had problems with her and finally gave up.

IF ANY OF THEM HAD JUST CALLED A TRAINER think of the heartache, horse and human, that could have been spared.
And think of the horse they could have had.

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buymeaclue April 16 2010, 15:53:24 UTC
I've been thinking about this post and this pretty much is what I came back to say. I feel like I'm always the wet blanket in this community telling people to get help...but life really, really is better for all concerned if people get help when they need it. No shame in that--quite the opposite!

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penella22 April 16 2010, 13:51:49 UTC
I mostly agree with this, except I don't really agree with letting her move around until she behaves and then stopping to spray.

Sorry if that wasn't clear, but you keep spraying her while she's moving, and stop when she stops. She learns the reward is in standing still. Then you spray her a little bit before you quit, and build on that. But it gives her the concept that the way to make the fly spray go away is by standing STILL.

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greyskyridge April 16 2010, 14:20:15 UTC
I understand your post; I think you didn't understand mine.

Yes, letting her move around and only stopping when she stops WILL teach her to be desensitized to flyspray.
Eventually, on a time line that the horse decides, she will decide, "Hey fly spray actually isn't so bad, it is easier to stand still."

So what happens if you are going down the trail and a plastic bag starts blowing toward you?
You do not have all day to have the horse move around until she decides it's not so bad and gets used to it.
You need the horse to STAND, NOW even though she doesn't like it and even though she is scared. If you wait for her to decide the plastic bag is actually not so bad, your heinie will be on the ground before she does.

The difference is as subtle as a.) following the horse around with a flyspray bottle for 20 minutes until finally she stands, or b.) always and immediately putting her feet back where they were the second she moves away from the spray, and ADDITIONALLY only stopping the overall spraying when she stands quietly.

The first method teaches the horse to eventually accept flyspray.
The second method teaches her to stand for stuff even though she doesn't accept it. Eventually she accepts it, but in the meantime she needs to stand even though she doesn't.

You need Option #2 for the flyspray training to carry over to the plastic bag situation.

Does that make the distinction clearer?

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