How much of it seems to be a nervous/fear reaction vs pissypony reaction?
Assuming its a nervous/fear reaction. How much time did you spend on messing with her back feet BEFORE the farrier came out and tried to shoe her for the first time? All my babies get their feet picked up and tapped on with chunks of wood before they ever see a farrier. It can be scary to all of a sudden have someone pounding nails around way back there. It also helps to have a farrier who is good with young/green horses. In fact, the farrier him/herself can be a major player in how well a horse tolerates shoeing. I had a pony come into training with me (OWNED by a farrier) and was told not to worry about her back legs, because no one could touch them. In two weeks, I could pick up her feet all the way around without a fuss, and we had her feet trimmed by our farrier. Sometimes horses just react negatively to someone who is just walking around them, yanking up their feet, and trying to hold it in place. A good farrier will touch and talk to the horse, take the time it takes to pick up the foot, and try to make it a positive experience, so that the next time is easier. From what you're saying, things are gettig worse each time, so clearly, something is happening that is making it a worse experience each time. If its mainly the sound behind her that gets to her, perhaps you could find a way to clang a bunch of stuff around behind her (of course, in a way that you can't get hurt if she does kick at it). Overall, though, this looks like its going to be an issue that you and your farrier will have to work through together, although you can certainly make sure that on your own you spend lots of extra time on those back feet, tapping away back there. Use your judgement. When she's good with you holding them up for a long time, tap around with your hands. When she's good with that, get a chunk of wood and tap around. And so on, until she doesn't have a care in the world what you're whacking around at her back feet with. But it will still be up to your farrier to be a team player and try to take things a little slow and easy for her.
If she's just being bitchy, thats another thing entirely. Kicking is not something that I tolerate, and if a horse kicks out at me from sheer pissiness, I've sometimes found the "make-yourself-10-feet-tall-and-sit-them-on-their-ass-scare-the-piss-out-of-them" (I don't beat them, don't get that idea, I just make myself big and scary and let them THINK I'm going to kill them) approach works. Did that with one mare, and she never tried to kick me again. But, its not very common that these things are just coming out of nowhere, especially if its not a horse who is pissy or bitchy in general, and if you get rough at all with a horse who is reacting out of any level of fear or discomfort, you WILL set everything back about 10x.
well im not sure of her background. I bought her and then put shoes on her two weeks later. She was bad for the first time. I twiched her for the hinds and she was fine. The second time, I only had to twitch her for one hind, the third time, I didnt have to twitch her at all so both the farrier and I were really pleased. He was what you described as a good farrier! Then I moved. I figured everything would be okay with the new farrier but he was a real ass and treated her badly....not abusive but he had a bad attitude and she picked up on it so she behaved very ugly towards him. She kicked at him which was the first time she ever tried to kick at someone. He smacked her a couple times for the kicking, which I was TOTALLY fine with me, and then she was sorta okay for the rest of the nails. I switched farriers because of his attitude and actions (other than the smack for the kick) and because I was not happy with the toe length, shoe, etc and I was ready for her to be bad and she was the worst ever. She kicked a lot, pulled her foot away and all this with the twitch. This farrier was way better than the previous; he was excatly how you described a good farrier above also but she did not even give him a chance.
I feel really depressed about this because one bad experience ruined her (at least for awhile). She was "bad" with the first farrier but it got a lot better but now Im stuck with a horse that is worse than before.
I dont know if its pain or not. Even though the vet said no, I odnt really think she could know 100%, ya know. Sometimes I think she is just being a bitch...she tends to be really bitchy for other things like shots, worming, clipping but I can manage all that. When she is doing the kicking, etc, she has her pissed face on...ears flat back, nose curled up....not the same as her worried/scared face with her eyes rolling around and nervous fidgeting.
I am worried that she will kick me but, trust me, if she does...and I can still walk, Ill "sit-her-on-her-ass" as best as I can...Im not afraid to do that at all and I know the difference between that and beating a horse. My farrier suggested not getting upset with her. I was all like "knock that shit off!" when she started jerking away from him. Sorry for this long response....Im rambling :( Thank you for your suggestions!
The reason I don't really advocate that other people use the same discipline techniques that I do (for instance, I will kick a horse back who walks on top of me, I will pop a biter under the chin, I will kick and yell at a horse for kicking me), is that if discipline is used it must be excersised at EXACTLY the right time, in exactly the right manner, with exacltly the right force, and its a feel that most people just don't have. Its a very subtle feel, and if you're a fraction of a second off on your reaction, you do more harm than good. And you also have to know when you should be having a "knock that shit off" moment, or a "I know you're upset and lets try to distract/comfort you" moment. It sounds like you had a farrier who wasn't exactly on the ball with the way he "disciplined" and it probably set you pretty far back. From what you tell me, it sounds like its not 100% a bitchy thing. Make SURE that if she kicks at you, and you go "NO!" and smack, that you then IMMEDIATELY go back to whatever you were doing, like running your hands all over her hind legs.
I've found that many horses who are funny about their feet (i've worked largely with young horses, from foals up, on several different farms) take it better if you're up by their heads giving them big pats and talks and making them think about what you're doing, not the farrier. Then they go, "oh, well thats not so bad". And I mean LOUD pats. I know, I know, there are people out there who think that patting your horse is practically abuse, but for my babies, I used to sort of cup my hand and smack their necks- it was loud, but not negative, and I told them how awesome they were. I ran across several vets and farriers who had never had anyone use that to distract a horse for farrier work, shots, whatever, but it tends to work.
Sometimes with cases like this you just need time, and consistancy. You and your farrier are going to have to work together to convince your grudgy little pony that shoes are going to be an ok thing. :)
One negative experience won't "ruin" her, especially if its not the first time she's been shod. She may be skittish but its no excuse to be a total prat (though she probably thinks it is). Memphis got stuck on a trailer once when he decided to climb into the gooseneck, he was afraid of trailers for a while afterwards but wasn't ruined. It just took a couple of times of loading him last and giving him plenty of space and then taking him off while he was still ok. Work with her and then stop before she starts getting wierd, if that means that you hold her foot up and tap it once with a piece of wood and then leave her alone then that may be what it takes.
If you're worried about getting kicked, work with her while someone holds her head so you have some help if you get hurt. Firm and consistent fixes behaviours like this pretty quickly in my experience. Treats are good, but if she's acting bratty instead of nervous then I wouldn't be super rewarding for nice behaviour. Just my opinion, but its worked for me.
Assuming its a nervous/fear reaction. How much time did you spend on messing with her back feet BEFORE the farrier came out and tried to shoe her for the first time? All my babies get their feet picked up and tapped on with chunks of wood before they ever see a farrier. It can be scary to all of a sudden have someone pounding nails around way back there. It also helps to have a farrier who is good with young/green horses. In fact, the farrier him/herself can be a major player in how well a horse tolerates shoeing. I had a pony come into training with me (OWNED by a farrier) and was told not to worry about her back legs, because no one could touch them. In two weeks, I could pick up her feet all the way around without a fuss, and we had her feet trimmed by our farrier. Sometimes horses just react negatively to someone who is just walking around them, yanking up their feet, and trying to hold it in place. A good farrier will touch and talk to the horse, take the time it takes to pick up the foot, and try to make it a positive experience, so that the next time is easier. From what you're saying, things are gettig worse each time, so clearly, something is happening that is making it a worse experience each time.
If its mainly the sound behind her that gets to her, perhaps you could find a way to clang a bunch of stuff around behind her (of course, in a way that you can't get hurt if she does kick at it). Overall, though, this looks like its going to be an issue that you and your farrier will have to work through together, although you can certainly make sure that on your own you spend lots of extra time on those back feet, tapping away back there. Use your judgement. When she's good with you holding them up for a long time, tap around with your hands. When she's good with that, get a chunk of wood and tap around. And so on, until she doesn't have a care in the world what you're whacking around at her back feet with. But it will still be up to your farrier to be a team player and try to take things a little slow and easy for her.
If she's just being bitchy, thats another thing entirely. Kicking is not something that I tolerate, and if a horse kicks out at me from sheer pissiness, I've sometimes found the "make-yourself-10-feet-tall-and-sit-them-on-their-ass-scare-the-piss-out-of-them" (I don't beat them, don't get that idea, I just make myself big and scary and let them THINK I'm going to kill them) approach works. Did that with one mare, and she never tried to kick me again. But, its not very common that these things are just coming out of nowhere, especially if its not a horse who is pissy or bitchy in general, and if you get rough at all with a horse who is reacting out of any level of fear or discomfort, you WILL set everything back about 10x.
Reply
I feel really depressed about this because one bad experience ruined her (at least for awhile). She was "bad" with the first farrier but it got a lot better but now Im stuck with a horse that is worse than before.
I dont know if its pain or not. Even though the vet said no, I odnt really think she could know 100%, ya know. Sometimes I think she is just being a bitch...she tends to be really bitchy for other things like shots, worming, clipping but I can manage all that. When she is doing the kicking, etc, she has her pissed face on...ears flat back, nose curled up....not the same as her worried/scared face with her eyes rolling around and nervous fidgeting.
I am worried that she will kick me but, trust me, if she does...and I can still walk, Ill "sit-her-on-her-ass" as best as I can...Im not afraid to do that at all and I know the difference between that and beating a horse. My farrier suggested not getting upset with her. I was all like "knock that shit off!" when she started jerking away from him. Sorry for this long response....Im rambling :( Thank you for your suggestions!
Reply
I've found that many horses who are funny about their feet (i've worked largely with young horses, from foals up, on several different farms) take it better if you're up by their heads giving them big pats and talks and making them think about what you're doing, not the farrier. Then they go, "oh, well thats not so bad". And I mean LOUD pats. I know, I know, there are people out there who think that patting your horse is practically abuse, but for my babies, I used to sort of cup my hand and smack their necks- it was loud, but not negative, and I told them how awesome they were. I ran across several vets and farriers who had never had anyone use that to distract a horse for farrier work, shots, whatever, but it tends to work.
Sometimes with cases like this you just need time, and consistancy. You and your farrier are going to have to work together to convince your grudgy little pony that shoes are going to be an ok thing. :)
Reply
If you're worried about getting kicked, work with her while someone holds her head so you have some help if you get hurt. Firm and consistent fixes behaviours like this pretty quickly in my experience. Treats are good, but if she's acting bratty instead of nervous then I wouldn't be super rewarding for nice behaviour. Just my opinion, but its worked for me.
Reply
Leave a comment