Everyone is talking about how hurtful it is to mention that you don't like something and to maybe discuss why this might be when something similar appeals. It's also hurtful to be attacked for not liking something when you've gone out of your way to make it known that you have nothing against the people who do happen to like that thing. Especially in a discussion that started out with explaining the possible origins of that dislike. A discussion that was supposed to be about understanding ended up with some people attacking others about daring to express a negative opinion about something (which is what I meant when speaking about negativity. Not people treating others badly or saying nasty things, just that some people are going to think negatively about things that don't appeal to them. "No, I don't like that genre" isn't a bad thing to say. It is, however, technically negative.)
I felt attacked for daring to not like something and trying to clarify why that might be. And in a way that I thought didn't dismiss or put the genre down. I don't like AH because it shifts away from the genre I'm interested in. How does that insult anyone? And there were a few things said that felt like a slap in the face, but I didn't go into it because I was already feeling like I was being treated like a monster who hates new writers who dare to write something I don't personally care for. It also felt like I was being told to just shut up and be dishonest by only saying things that could be seen as positive. That I should say, "oh, yes, I love ALL fanfics of all types and all tropes" to avoid hurting anyone. That's unrealistic to expect and is something that new writers have to learn. Not everyone is going to like everything. And that's okay, as long as no one attacks anyone over it.
I've had people shove a certain AH fic at me multiple times, dismissing my "I'm sure it's lovely, but that's not my thing," as unimportant. As me being childish for not giving it a try, and that I'd surely like it if I just read it. People are allowed to have their dislikes. They should be allowed to discuss them and the possible reasons as long as they stay respectful. Just because something is technically "negative" doesn't make it disrespectful or mean that those with those opinions should be muzzled and treated like dirt because of said opinions.
I'm actually shaking and crying right now, and the story I'm working on is going to have to wait because I'm too upset to write. But if feels like none of that even matters, because I'm apparently just the evil, negative witch who hates AH and anyone who likes or writes it.
Hey, you aren't alone! I don't like AH fic either. If it is supposed to be about Spike, it needs to be about a vampire. Not some man called Spike! I've read it, and it just doesn't float my boat. Like slash. That doesn't either. But try telling people you don't like that!
It's this whole thing of some people are just unable to accept that others may not love the things they love and so therefore they must not have done it right and if they only tried they would.
I have long since learned to quietly pass by and just not comment. But I wanted to say I know how you feel, and *hugs*.
My response to you as someone who enjoys slash is... cool! ^__^ It's great that we all have different likes and dislikes. *hugs* Thank you for the supportive reply.
I'm sorry you felt attacked, Zab. I was just so happy to see a few people standing up for some the same opinions I have, I wanted to cheer. Since I've said many times why I don't care for AH fics, I was just pleased to seem others articulating the same thoughts and didn't think I needed to chime in. Perhaps I should have offered more support?
And I'm perfectly comfortable with those who don't like claims. It doesn't hurt my feelings that many people think they are icky or unrealistic or whatever. It's a trope. You either like it or you don't. I don't take it personally or consider it a slam at me or my taste in tropes. Sometimes I find them useful for my plot, sometimes I don't, so there isn't one. If people who don't like them don't read a particular story because it's in there, I don't take that personally. A nasty review might irritate me - but something like "I wanted to read this, but claims give me the heebie jeebies" wouldn't make me feel attacked. Sorry, here, try this fic that doesn't have a claim in it.
I am not what anyone would consider a particularly sensitive person and never have been. Now I'm old and cranky. LOL On the other hand, I'm willing to hear other opinions on things and they may (or may not - see old and cranky) actually tweak my opinion of that particular trope or genre. It was actually quite a relief when the BSV loosened its requirement that a story contain blood play, because it freed me from feeling I had to shoehorn biting or a claim into every story I wrote.
As far as criticism goes - when I was first starting out, it's probable a review that said my writing sucked would have hurt. Of course it would have. Even if it pointed out all the sucky things I was doing. But once I got over being hurt, I might very well have rethought my use of some of those sucky (pun not intended) things. I still get the occasional ff.net review that is what the reviewer considers constructive criticism. If they are polite and making a good point, I'll thank them and decide for myself if I agree. If they are wrong (if you're a sophomore in high school, please don't try to get into a grammar or punctuation argument with me. I will throw the entire Chicago Manual of Style at you.), I may or may not respond depending upon my mood and their approach. Either way, my feelings aren't hurt.
Back in the day, if I read something in a conversation on LJ in which people whose opinions and writing I respected were discussing a writing tic (use of epithets, for instance) I used a lot, I wouldn't have been hurt by their negative comments or feel they were aimed at me specifically. I would have been grateful for the information that I had picked up a writing tic that wasn't actually indicative of "good writing".
I was never a fiction writer until I discovered fanfic, so many of my writing tics when I first started out were based on copying what I'd seen from others when I first started reading it voraciously. Not all of it was worth emulating..... I feel like the information I picked up from LJ conversations (and things like the SB on other archives) was useful and worthwhile and helped me clean up my act quite a bit. Not being familiar with this type of writing, I assumed some of the things I found odd were part and parcel of the genre and expected to be there. It was quite a relief to find out it was okay not to emulate everything I'd seen. :)
And yes, if the discussion was taking place where most of the comments were from like-minding people, it could get a little uncomfortable. Hearing people you respect mocking something you know you do is going to be a little ouchy. But in my case, I would then take a look at what they were saying, and could then make an informed decision about whether I wanted to change that particular writing tic, or decide I liked it and phooey on them. :)
All of which is a long way around of saying, I'm totally with you on AH, and that doesn't make either one of us evil people unless we start leaving comments like "how can you possibly like this drivel?" Which no one did that I noticed. There was a lot of defensiveness in that conversation, and that never goes well for anyone.
I felt attacked for daring to not like something and trying to clarify why that might be. And in a way that I thought didn't dismiss or put the genre down. I don't like AH because it shifts away from the genre I'm interested in. How does that insult anyone? And there were a few things said that felt like a slap in the face, but I didn't go into it because I was already feeling like I was being treated like a monster who hates new writers who dare to write something I don't personally care for. It also felt like I was being told to just shut up and be dishonest by only saying things that could be seen as positive. That I should say, "oh, yes, I love ALL fanfics of all types and all tropes" to avoid hurting anyone. That's unrealistic to expect and is something that new writers have to learn. Not everyone is going to like everything. And that's okay, as long as no one attacks anyone over it.
I've had people shove a certain AH fic at me multiple times, dismissing my "I'm sure it's lovely, but that's not my thing," as unimportant. As me being childish for not giving it a try, and that I'd surely like it if I just read it. People are allowed to have their dislikes. They should be allowed to discuss them and the possible reasons as long as they stay respectful. Just because something is technically "negative" doesn't make it disrespectful or mean that those with those opinions should be muzzled and treated like dirt because of said opinions.
I'm actually shaking and crying right now, and the story I'm working on is going to have to wait because I'm too upset to write. But if feels like none of that even matters, because I'm apparently just the evil, negative witch who hates AH and anyone who likes or writes it.
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It's this whole thing of some people are just unable to accept that others may not love the things they love and so therefore they must not have done it right and if they only tried they would.
I have long since learned to quietly pass by and just not comment. But I wanted to say I know how you feel, and *hugs*.
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And I'm perfectly comfortable with those who don't like claims. It doesn't hurt my feelings that many people think they are icky or unrealistic or whatever. It's a trope. You either like it or you don't. I don't take it personally or consider it a slam at me or my taste in tropes. Sometimes I find them useful for my plot, sometimes I don't, so there isn't one. If people who don't like them don't read a particular story because it's in there, I don't take that personally. A nasty review might irritate me - but something like "I wanted to read this, but claims give me the heebie jeebies" wouldn't make me feel attacked. Sorry, here, try this fic that doesn't have a claim in it.
I am not what anyone would consider a particularly sensitive person and never have been. Now I'm old and cranky. LOL On the other hand, I'm willing to hear other opinions on things and they may (or may not - see old and cranky) actually tweak my opinion of that particular trope or genre. It was actually quite a relief when the BSV loosened its requirement that a story contain blood play, because it freed me from feeling I had to shoehorn biting or a claim into every story I wrote.
As far as criticism goes - when I was first starting out, it's probable a review that said my writing sucked would have hurt. Of course it would have. Even if it pointed out all the sucky things I was doing. But once I got over being hurt, I might very well have rethought my use of some of those sucky (pun not intended) things. I still get the occasional ff.net review that is what the reviewer considers constructive criticism. If they are polite and making a good point, I'll thank them and decide for myself if I agree. If they are wrong (if you're a sophomore in high school, please don't try to get into a grammar or punctuation argument with me. I will throw the entire Chicago Manual of Style at you.), I may or may not respond depending upon my mood and their approach. Either way, my feelings aren't hurt.
Back in the day, if I read something in a conversation on LJ in which people whose opinions and writing I respected were discussing a writing tic (use of epithets, for instance) I used a lot, I wouldn't have been hurt by their negative comments or feel they were aimed at me specifically. I would have been grateful for the information that I had picked up a writing tic that wasn't actually indicative of "good writing".
I was never a fiction writer until I discovered fanfic, so many of my writing tics when I first started out were based on copying what I'd seen from others when I first started reading it voraciously. Not all of it was worth emulating..... I feel like the information I picked up from LJ conversations (and things like the SB on other archives) was useful and worthwhile and helped me clean up my act quite a bit. Not being familiar with this type of writing, I assumed some of the things I found odd were part and parcel of the genre and expected to be there. It was quite a relief to find out it was okay not to emulate everything I'd seen. :)
And yes, if the discussion was taking place where most of the comments were from like-minding people, it could get a little uncomfortable. Hearing people you respect mocking something you know you do is going to be a little ouchy. But in my case, I would then take a look at what they were saying, and could then make an informed decision about whether I wanted to change that particular writing tic, or decide I liked it and phooey on them. :)
All of which is a long way around of saying, I'm totally with you on AH, and that doesn't make either one of us evil people unless we start leaving comments like "how can you possibly like this drivel?" Which no one did that I noticed. There was a lot of defensiveness in that conversation, and that never goes well for anyone.
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