Ray - generous?

[aingeal8c]

It's been very quiet here so here's a discussion question to try to get us tlaking:

Ray Vecchio is a generous person - what do you think? Is he or isn't he?

Comments

[nakeisha]

No time for an in-depth reply - sorry I know that defeats the object, but you know why.

Instead short answer - YES. Absolutely no question about it. None whatsoever.

Just a few examples:

- He provides for his family
- He mortgages his home for Benny
- He gives away his Riv money for Benny
- He allows Dief in his beloved car
- He takes Benny into his life and home
- He may moan about doing it, but he's always there for Benny doing whatever crazy thing Benny wants to do
- He gives up home, Benny, the life he knows to go undercover

There are many ways of being generous, time, money, support, a willingness to do things you don't want to do, etc. etc. etc. Ray does them all.

Guess that wasn't as short as I thought *g*

Back to the slog.

[aingeal8c]

Hee hee nope not so short ;-)

I think the examples you've got there show that his acts of generosity are centred mostly around his fmaily adn Benny. He does seem to spend a lot of time and money on a certain Mountie even if he might moan about it. He really does seem to show how much he cares through what he does for him.

And good luck with the slog.

[nakeisha]

You know me

[aingeal8c]

I do.

I think we are all like that, excpet maybe Fraser but then he's an exception.

1) That's true and he did go against his father in becoming a cop.

2) And yes I think that is linked to wanting to live up to how Fraser sees him - as this generous person who does his duty well. But yes it is a genernous, sleffless in a way thing to do.

I think you are right that it's the subtle things we miss. I think you have a good point there.

[jenoofer]

I think the Ray we meet in the pilot is definitely not a generous person. He doesn't have a great relationship with his colleagues, and I think the whole supporting his family thing is as much about making up for his father's lack of care as it is about familial love

[aingeal8c]

I think Ray does have limits to who is generous too. I do wonder if he is determined to make up for his father's failings when it comes to the family. Although his father was apparently able to afford a house, and quite a nice one too. I think the love was perhaps what he was short on and Ray seems to show his love for his fmaily in perhaps more material ways because that was what his father did.

He seems to put Fraser above everyone else, even his family and that's interesting because it's not something that would seem to come easily to him as you pointed out. Yet with Fraser there don't seem to be any limits. I wonder if Ray just doesn't think about them or just hasn't defined them. I think his generosity toward Fraser does grow and agian I think the money goes back tot he fact it was the way perhaps his father showed generosity or provided.

Would you say that some of the things he does for Fraser are by nature altruistic? Does he have that capacity or does he have to learn it?

[jenoofer]

The more I think about it, the more I believe that a lot of his apparent generosity towards Fraser actually comes from wanting to protect Fraser from the more dubious mores of the city - con-artists, predatory women, etc. He thinks that Fraser's too innocent to survive alone in Chicago and that no one else will look out for him. I don't think this behaviour is entirely altruistic because Ray is often vocal about his resentment - "Why is this my life?" There are also moments when the view wonders, along with Ray, why he goes to such lengths when he doesn't appear to get the same treatment from Fraser. Why does he leave in the middle of an investigation to pick up Fraser's formal belt and gloves in 'Chicago Holiday', for example

[_scally]

I'd say Ray has the capacity for complete generosity, but it takes the right people to bring it out in him.

I fully agree with you here - Ray needs someone to help him realize his inner strenght, and it's someone appears to be Fraser.

[tiggymalvern]

I think there are two separate questions here - he's not naturally altruistic, he doesn't bond with strangers. Most people he's not going to be generous with, because why should he be? He doesn't know them, and he figures they probably wouldn't help him if the situation were reversed.

Generosity he reserves for the people who matter, his family and Fraser. Then he's generous with his time, his money, and his life, almost more than most people could be expected to be. There's a very clear cut-off point around a select group of individuals he prioritises.

[aingeal8c]

I think your points are the ones I'd agree with. For people he knows and loves he does seem to be generous; with his fmaily and with Fraser. Other people he wants to know what he;d be getting out of it.

I think he does have a - they wouldn't help me so why should heplp them attitude at times. But then he's grown up in a big city where most poeple have that perhaps selfish attitude. When it comes to Fraser though it ends up not applying. And what he does for Fraser does go beyond what you might expect.

[tiggymalvern]

And what he does for Fraser does go beyond what you might

Absolutely. It starts initially as pure guilt over the 'dead mountie' crack. But Fraser proves very quickly that he's not one of those people who would walk on by if the situation were reversed, so then Ray's natural protective tendencies come out. It looks as if all you have to do to get Ray to show his generosity is to first show your own :-)

[aingeal8c]

It looks as if all you have to do to get Ray to show his generosity is to first show your own :-)

It does indeed but the rewards would seem to be well worth it.

[_scally]

As soon as I read the question, I wanted to post a comment with a certain "yes".
Ray is generous, but his generosity is not obvious, especially for those who don't know him very good. Ray wears "I-don't-care-guy" mask (a subconscious self-defence?), and father issues could probably explain this.
As it was said before, Ray is very generous to people he loves - his friends ans family. We can see a number of examples when Ray is extremely generous to Fraser, providing him any kind of help and support. In this case, I think, Ray feels that Fraser believes in him much more than the others do; from the very beginnig Fraser managed to see, Ray wasn't a person he pretended to be.
Moreover, Ray helps (even if the help demands a lot of risk) strangers or people he actually dislikes - Paducchi, Ian, Torres, and Fraser in the Pilot is more a stranger for him.
So my answer is positive and that's mainly explains why I like Ray so much.

[aingeal8c]

I think his don't care attitude is a legacy of his father and his upbringing. He doesn't want to appear weak.

I think he does choose carefully who is generous too, like family and Fraser. He seems to want to live up to how Fraser sees him (which seems to be as a generous guy) so he does so.

I think Ray helps strangers more when Fraser is involved. He doesn't want to be seen letting Fraser down. If Fraser cna be that generous then so can Ray. It helps push him on perhaps.

But yes I thinkt here is a lot to be positive about.