Ray - generous?

[aingeal8c]

It's been very quiet here so here's a discussion question to try to get us tlaking:

Ray Vecchio is a generous person - what do you think? Is he or isn't he?

Comments

[jenoofer]

The more I think about it, the more I believe that a lot of his apparent generosity towards Fraser actually comes from wanting to protect Fraser from the more dubious mores of the city - con-artists, predatory women, etc. He thinks that Fraser's too innocent to survive alone in Chicago and that no one else will look out for him. I don't think this behaviour is entirely altruistic because Ray is often vocal about his resentment - "Why is this my life?" There are also moments when the view wonders, along with Ray, why he goes to such lengths when he doesn't appear to get the same treatment from Fraser. Why does he leave in the middle of an investigation to pick up Fraser's formal belt and gloves in 'Chicago Holiday', for example?

Obviously this changes over time; his offer to shoot Diefenbaker in 'TWB' is entirely altruistic. I'd say Ray has the capacity for complete generosity, but it takes the right people to bring it out in him. Fraser allows him to see the real rewards of generosity; rather than being rewarded with money, posessions or status, he's rewarded with friendship, loyalty, trust and love.

It's very complex - even towards Fraser there are moments when he's still very selfish. In 'RWOB' he won't speak to Fraser when they're strapped to a bomb, and in 'JIB' he's far too wrapped up in his own vendetta against Zuko to give Fraser's theories a moment's thought. Yes, he's generous towards Fraser, moreso than even with his family, but it's not always completely selfless.

[_scally]

I'd say Ray has the capacity for complete generosity, but it takes the right people to bring it out in him.

I fully agree with you here - Ray needs someone to help him realize his inner strenght, and it's someone appears to be Fraser.

[aingeal8c]

I do wonder if Ray's generosity is partly linked to how Fraser seems to see him and how much he wants to live up to that. He wants to show Fraser his best side. I think Ray does whine and complain perhaps more than he should but at the end fo the day he still does whatever it is. And it's interesting that although it's Fraser inspiring Ray's generosity it manifests itself in odd ways like Fraser phoning Ray for the gloves and Ray getting them. It's unclear how much Fraser expects Ray to put himself out for Fraser.

I agree he gets a lot of what he does for Fraser and certainly he wanted to spare Fraser pain in TWB incident. And if Fraser encourages generosity toward others Ray's focus seems to be on the reward he gets from seeing Fraser happy.

I think when his emotions are heavily involved he does lose perspective. I've always felt the reaction in RWOB was out of character for Ray by that point int canon. He seemed to have moved beyond that. In JIB though he certainly lets his fued with Zuko get in the way. At least he saw Fraser's POV in the end but by then it's perhaps too late (well it is for Irene).

[jenoofer]

I've always felt the reaction in RWOB was out of character for Ray by that point int canon.

In my head, I can sort of rationalise it - after all, how often does Ray get to be the centre of attention? Then again, you have to bear in mind who wrote 'RWOB'. Same goes for 'ATQH' when Ray is reluctant to leave his poker game when Fraser's being held hostage.

[aingeal8c]

Then again, you have to bear in mind who wrote 'RWOB'. Same goes for 'ATQH' when Ray is reluctant to leave his poker game when Fraser's being held hostage.

Yes that's a good point. Ray wasn't exactly in character in ATQH either...