The last girl and the last reason - Robin/Marian/Guy vid
FINALLY! This vid popped into my head over a year ago, but I didn't think I could do it justice with shitty WMM - but NOW, thanks to my spanky new Sony Vegas gift from the vidding gods, I FINALLY DID IT! My second Robin Hood vid, but this time focusing on the show's triangle of leads Robin, Marian and Guy (though it is slightly more Robin-POV'd
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First of all, I wanted to say that I watched this video on YouTube and loved it. Second, I saw your comment last night on the LJ post on the portrayal of women on RH and was a little saddened by it, and since that post has been taken down I thought I'd comment here. I'm a professional, independent, feminist woman who loves Guy/Marian and is not the least bit ashamed or embarrassed of it, and I don't think anyone else should be either. The LJ poster actually acknowledged that she was focusing on only one, darkest aspect of the Guy/Marian storyline (the "abusive relationship" overtones) and that there is another more positive way to see it. I think you can take any aspect of the story and focus on the negatives and turn it into something ugly -- I mean, you could describe the show's Robin Hood as a man who is so fanatically devoted to his leader (King Richard) that he's willing to torture people, kill an unconscious man or cut out his tongue, and go on a suicide mission to kill a roomful of people with knives in his leader's name and you could argue that this is highly unhealthy and similar to terrorists.
I really don't see what you said you saw on the show after reading the post, i.e., Guy reverting to abusive behavior in virtually every episode. To me his development after 2x02 was all positive until the finale (sure he did some stupid things like try to make a move on Marian when she let him comfort her after her father's death, but I think that was due more than anything to his lack of social skills). As for the finale, I don't like what they did but I don't think it "pushed the reset button" on Guy's character at all. There's actually a very good analysis of it here that I strongly recommend, and that explains it as a tragedy without excusing Guy or bashing Marian. I miss Marian but I have absolutely no apologies for loving the Guy angst in this season or the interesting relationship between Robin and Guy now that Marian is gone.
I also don't believe the show ever implied that Marian's manipulation was to blame for Guy's bad acts. There may be some overzealous Guy fangirls who think so, but I don't think this is the show's fault (and this happens in every fandom, really). In fact in Season 3 Guy blames pretty much everybody for Marian's death (until he finally takes responsibility for it) but he never, ever suggests that Marian was to blame or that she "deserved it."
I'm all for women's empowerment, and I agree they could have done a better job with Marian in that respect, but I think it's a bit sad that any time a label like "abuse" is tossed out there it somehow cancels out themes like redemption (including redemption through love) or tragedy or character growth, or the appreciation of an interesting and conflicted character or relationship. Incidentally, I might add that while I love RA and the chemistry between him and Lucy, it was the characters and the relationship dynamic that drew me in.
As for the issue of the show being geared to children... I think there was a lot of very dark material on the show from the start. In Ep 2 we see someone get their tongue cut out (and the hero being indirectly responsible for it). We see children (like Little John's son) being threatened with torture, or used as pawns to lure in the hero. We see references to rape and sexual abuse (when the characters worry about what will happen to Djaq in 1x08 when her jailers find out she's a girl). We see, like I said before, the hero resorting to torture and what you might call a suicide terrorist attack (Robin going up against the Black Knights in For England). I'm not sure how Marian's death is different. (A friend of mine recently finished watching S1-2 with her 9-year-old sister and the thing that upset her sister the most of the entire show was the Sheriff crushing the bird. LOL.) I also think people worry too much about kids getting "bad messages" and applying fictional things to real life -- it's like worrying that Romeo and Juliet encourages teenage suicide (not to mention teenage sex).
Sorry about the rant! :D I just feel strongly on the subject (I'll post my own essay about it, one of these days).
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I think my reaction was so strong due to a number of things: 1) I'm in a psych course where a lot of focus has been on gender roles, so everything re: the portrayal of females in the media is heightened, and you just start to see archaic and offensive stereotypes everywhere.
2) I have worked at domestic abuse centers, so I take any hint of it very seriously. And while I may have over-reached a little re: Guy's abuse of Marian, I will not take back that their relationship was indeed abusive - mentally, emotionally and phsically. HE KILLED HER. Whether it was in a moment of passion or not, he brutally KILLED HER. And sadly, that is often how abusive relationships end. Yes, you can look at Guy's killing Marian from his POV, and it was a tragedy - but again, HE. KILLED. HER. There is no excuse. It cannot just be explained away. Yes, it made for an incredibly intense and emotional moment, but that doesn't lessen it's wrongness or it's import. And Guy gets off scot-free. He is shown to brood and be slightly haunted by it in the first ep of S3 (I'm admittedly only 1/2 way through the third sereis) but other than that - nothing.
It was not a healthy relationship, and while I enjoyed their scenes together (mainly due to the chemistry btw Lucy and Richard), I could never root for them as a couple. There were moments where it seemed like I might be able to - I really wanted to - Marian would let down her gaurd a little and Guy would act like a human, but then that mask would slip back on and he would say something offensive and the thin hope I'd have would be shattered. Those moments were nice glimpses of what the character could be, but what I knew the writers would never really allow. They continued on with his unhealthy obsession w/ Marian, treating her like something to be possessed - so despite how amazing and hot I thought the actors were together, i just could not accept them as a postive, viable pairing.
In theory, I really like this couple - asthetically they are amazing,- but reality is a different story. WHich i why I enjoy vidding them - b/c I can create my own little AU world and can conveniently ignore all of the negative aspects of the relationship and the characters' parts in it.
I will be sure to read the post you linked, and hope that while we may not agree on the G/M relationship on the actual show, I hope we may find common ground in other fandom aspects of the pairing and the show.
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Plus, he always spoke to her like she was a simpleton - his "dainty little woman" view of her was a turn off. So yeah, I know there are others, but it's been a while since i watched the past 2 series so I can't immediately recall anymore.
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Guy was controlling - that might be a better word than "abusive" (though a controlling relationship is an abusive one) - but either way, he tried to control her actions, her emotions and her thoughts. Guy was obsessed with having this idealized version of Marian that he had created. Like Marian said: "You say you love me but you don't really know me" (or something to that effect).
[Yes, he may have gotten to know her a little over the two years, but the bits he did learn were those that she wanted him to know - he knew her character (i.e her "willfullness" or "recklessness", and her desire to help others and for him to be better) but he never really knew what made her tick or what her headspace looked like]
When he found her out as the nightwatchman, she slipped a little off of that pedastal he'd placed her on. He was able to push aside the anger and hurt over the deception b/c of his affection for her, but when she admitted her love for Robin, she totally fell off and he was totally wrecked. His killing her in that moment of passion can be read a number of different ways, one of which could be that if he couldn't have her no one would - or that he was just overcome by a violent rage after basically getting slapping in the face with what he prob saw as a big ole F.U to their entire relationship. You do see his immediate shock and grief at what he had done, but that doesn't take it back.
As for the way Marian broke the news of her marrying Robin, and the way she smiled and laughed - all those years of deception has to take its toll on a person. I think she was relieved to finally just get it out there, to end all the lies and to just be free of it all. (I know we weren't really talking about that, but it goes in tandem w/ Guy's reaction in the scene and her motivation leading up to her outburst in the finale - afterall, she always was a bit reckless)
And I read the post you linked me to, and it did lay out the motivations of both characters, leading up to that final scene, very well. But it was also just a very small selection of scenes btw the two characters over the course of 2 series, and they were scenes that fit into the poster's explanation of what led M/G to act the way they did. I agree with the emotions/thoughts that she laid out for the characters, but that doesn't make what happened, or what led up to it, right.
And now i feel a lot better that I was able to coherently lay all that out. sorry for the excessive responding lol
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As for why he killed her... I actually don't think, watching that scene (which I have too many times, lol) that his expression suggests rage or anything like "if I can't have her no one will." I think it's more that in that moment his whole world is completely shattered because it's like everything that ever happened between him and Marian was a lie (which I actually don't think it was, but more on that later), and he just sort of blindly lashes out at her. I don't think he would have killed her if he didn't have a sword drawn and pointed in her direction at that precise moment. Again, that's obviously not an excuse or a justification, but I do think it was close to a "temporary insanity" type of situation.
OK, back to work! *slaps self*
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