The long and strange track I chose.

Jan 09, 2007 02:04

The long and strange track I chose; the long road that leads me out to God knows.

--Glen Hansard, lead guitarist and vocalist of The FramesI love that quote. It's like my non-Bible life quote, as you can see from my livejournal userinfo page ( Read more... )

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islam israel anonymous January 13 2007, 22:31:19 UTC
Dear Sir ( ... )

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Re: islam israel demann6654 January 16 2007, 06:06:27 UTC
Considering my lack of faith in the forthcoming return of an anonymous internet poster, I will respond to this post for my own benefit and for the benefit of anyone else who happens across this discussion and is perhaps puzzled by the words of the anonymous.

I will respond to and expand upon each point of interest in consideration of the need as follows.

Genesis 21:14 Contemporary English version se below link

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=GENESIS%2021;&version=46;The person (let us refer to him as a man for the purpose of simplicity) starts off by quoting an obscure 1995 printing of the Contemporary English version of the Bible. The later words of the anonymous would lead me to believe that he is perhaps the resident of a country where English is not the primary language. Considering that, I would not be surprised that he chose to quote the CEV; it is a Bible specifically designed for young children and people to ( ... )

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Re: islam israel demann6654 January 16 2007, 06:07:06 UTC
At Genesis 22 Abraham had only 2 sons others came later. The Quran mentions that it was Ishmael that was sacrificed hence the reference in genesis 22:2 your only son can only mean someone has substituted Ishmael names for Isaac!!

The verse in question is this:

Genesis 22:2 (NIV)

"Take your son, your only son-yes, Isaac, whom you love so much-and go to the land of Moriah. Go and sacrifice him as a burnt offering on one of the mountains, which I will show you.”

Several reasons can be attributed as to why the passage refers to Isaac as Abraham's only son. There are certainly more credible and less extravagant reasons than a forgery or plagiarism. But I will simply list the strongest and most important one.

The word translated as "only," Yakeed, can also be translated as "beloved" or "darling." Since Isaac is a prophetic representation of Christ, this makes a lot of sense in consideration of the words of John 3:16 -- "For God so loved the world that he sent his only (Greek monogones--beloved, darling) begotten Son, that whoever ( ... )

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Re: islam israel demann6654 January 16 2007, 06:09:28 UTC
BY DOING SOME KINDERGARTEN ARITHMATIC USING ARABIC NUMBERS (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10)
NOT ROMAN NUMERALS (I, II, III,IV,V,VI,VII,VIII,IX,X) NB no concept of zero in roman numerals.

100 years old - 86 years old = 14 ADD 3 YEARS FOR ISSAC’S WEANING

THAT WOULD MAKE ISHMAEL 17 YEARS OLD IN GENESIS 21:14-21
BUT IT IS A DESCRIPTION OF AN INFANT.

Seventeen is about right, give or take. Although I am aware that we use an Arabic number system.

This is where it becomes very problematic for this anonymous poster. The bulk and strongest point of his argument is based on incorrect interpretation of a (what in this issue has proved to be) insufficient translation, and he has not yet cited any knowledge of history, anthropology or language. These are issues that are always important in matters of four-thousand-year-old ancient texts.

Carefully read several times the above passage and then tell me the mental picture you get between the mother child interactions what is the age of the child. If the mental picture is that of a 17 year old child ( ... )

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Re: islam israel demann6654 January 16 2007, 06:11:35 UTC
And as she sat over against him, the (17 YEAR OLD) child lifted up his voice and wept

Another CEV issue; Ishmael isn't weeping in this verse. Hagar is.

And God heard the voice of the (17 YEAR OLD) lad; and the angel of God called to Hagar from heaven, and said to her, “What troubles you, Hagar? Fear not; for God has heard the voice of the (17 YEAR OLD) lad where he is.

Regardless of if Ishmael was dying of thirst or not, I think I might also weep if I was stranded out in the desert with no water. I think there are many people older than seventeen who would be upset at this.

Arise, lift up the (17 YEAR OLD) lad, and hold him fast with your hand; for I will make him a great nation."

The Hebrew term for "hold him" is Kazak. Kazak is a term that can mean cure, strengthen, help or aid, among many other interpretations. If Ishmael is laying down a distance away, perhaps dehydrated, it would make sense for God to tell Hagar to go help him up.

Then God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the skin ( ... )

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Re: islam israel demann6654 January 16 2007, 06:11:56 UTC
This makes the conflict between Ishmael and Isaac and there descendants a work of fiction. I would strongly suggest it is clear cut case of racial discrimination and nothing to do with god almighty.

Assuming that what was stated held up to scholarly criticism. Your objections are speculative at best.

The scribes have deliberately tried to make Isaac the only son and legitimate heir to the throne of Abraham??

If they were trying to do that, they probably would have removed Ishmael from the story completely. He could probably be compared to a guest star in the book of Genesis; his removal would not affect the story very much.

Please can you rationally explain this anomaly?

See above.

I have asked many persons including my nephews and nieces - unbiased minds with no religious backgrounds but with reasonable command of the English language about this passage and they all agree that the child in the passage is an infant.There are times when more than an unbiased mind is needed. There are times when scholarly resources will help ( ... )

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