Feeling guilty about being disinterested in or disliking Rowling's female characters

[torchedsong]

The title is self-explanatory. After rereading HP, I realized how let down I was about the dearth of interesting and/or likable female characters. As someone who has a long list of favorite female characters from various books, movies, TV shows, and video games, the women in the Harry Potter books leave me cold or bored

Comments

[chantaldormand]

I'll say this: never let anybody guilt trip you for not liking a character who happens to be woman/black/gay/etc. A character has to be able to stand on it's own, no matter if we are speaking about a Cosmic Pink Teapot or representative of minority. If character ends up being flat or Marry Sue or plainly uninteresting then it's fault of author and/or editor.

As for what is wrong with female characters in HPverse? Well the problem is two-folded.

We are exploring HPverse through Harry's eyes, but because JKR cannot comprehend being attracted to women, Harry ends up looking completely uninterested in them. Most girls end up being described by a trope Jo assigned them and Harry interacts with them only when plot calls for it. Men on the other hand get elaborate descriptions of their clothing or expressions.
It's no wonder that this fandom ended up being full of m/m ffs :P

The other level of the problem isn't exclusive to JKR, but rather common in story telling.
Age old problem of Marry Sue vs. Garry Stu.A few months back I discussed

[torchedsong]

A character has to be able to stand on it's own, no matter if we are speaking about a Cosmic Pink Teapot or representative of minority.

I agree. Representation is important, but it's better when it's supported by well written characters.

We are exploring HPverse through Harry's eyes, but because JKR cannot comprehend being attracted to women, Harry ends up looking completely uninterested in them.JKR being a heterosexual woman would influence the way she writes Harry and his perception of girls. This is probably the main reason why the romances involving Harry are so lackluster. Cho is pretty and athletic, and that's pretty much it. Ginny is pretty and athletic and ignites the chest monster within, so obviously she's Harry's soulmate (but only after she gets an upgrade; when she was a bashful background damsel, Harry hardly spared her a single thought beyond her being taken in COS

[t0ra_chan]

You're not being unfair about the way JKR writes her female characters, she clearly doesn't practice what she preaches. She once said that the wizarding world is supposed to be equal, but when you actually look at what she wrote, it's clearly not the case. Female characters, especially feminine ones, are always treated as lesser, unless they're no-nonsense like Hermione and McGonagall or tomboys like Ginny

[aikaterini]

/Female characters, especially feminine ones, are always treated as lesser, unless they're no-nonsense like Hermione and McGonagall or tomboys like Ginny

[torchedsong]

But since it's only girls who are doing those things, eh, whatever. It's not like they live in a world that's run by magic, where men and women are equally capable of performing magic.

I think this is another case of JKR not knowing what kind of tone she's setting for her story. On one hand, she wants to add fantastical or humorous elements where abuse, bullying, and violence can be viewed in a frivolous/funny/trivial matter. On the other hand, she also wants to introduce mature and heavy themes to make her books darker and more serious - therefore abuse, bullying, and violence shouldn't be viewed in a frivolous/funny/trivial matter.

The result is a mess of different tones. Physical violence between students can be funny and slapstick (Hermione sending the birds on Ron) or it can be threatening (Draco stomping on Harry's nose in HBP). I think it's a combination of JKR not knowing what approach she wants for her world, Gryffindors getting away with their bad behavior, and violence from girls being seen as "feisty" or "funny" because

[mary_j_59]

I agree so much with this! It always struck me that Hermione was abusive to Ron--both with the bird attack and with her hitting him when he came back to the tent in DH. Had he been shown doing likewise to her, no reader could have seen it as anything but abuse. But, somehow, Hermione gets a pass. Why?

It's pretty frustrating.

[mary_j_59]

Your last question is interesting, and I"m not sure I have an answer. I am one of the people who noted that Rowling is a good observer of peoples' actions and looks, but very bad at interpreting them. This is especially true, for me, in the depiction of Severus, but it's pretty universal with her characters. The female character who bothers me the most? Molly Weasely. A younger colleague called her a harridan when we were discussing the books. She's just awful to Ron. Yet, because she's kind to Harry and always giving him food, we're supposed to see her as a generous, earth-mother type. She's not

[torchedsong]

I am one of the people who noted that Rowling is a good observer of peoples' actions and looks, but very bad at interpreting them.I think she has a tendency to treat some of her characters as plot devices or superficial identities rather than real believable people. Going deeper beneath the surface requires extra time and work that I think JKR isn't interested in if it doesn't serve the plot. She's not a character-driven writer

[aikaterini]

/As for Molly, I think JKR wanted someone to fulfill the mother role for Harry that he didn't get from Lily because she was killed

[torchedsong]

Petunia is treated with more relevance than Vernon, and I've noticed the fandom is also slightly kinder to Petunia opposed to Vernon. Having Harry's mother as a sister privileges Petunia's character to a certain extent

[sunnyskywalker]

Her female characters usually lack character arcs or subplots of their own. And they usually have a lot less backstory or interesting details that you can use as a springboard for imagination. It's harder to imagine what they're like when Harry isn't in the room

[torchedsong]

Her female characters usually lack character arcs or subplots of their own. And they usually have a lot less backstory or interesting details that you can use as a springboard for imagination. It's harder to imagine what they're like when Harry isn't in the room.

I think more often, the male characters get to exist for themselves, and the female characters react to them. It's very unbalanced.Yes, I agree with you. The men have a stronger presence in the story and seem to have interesting lives separate from Harry. Even if they aren't written to their full potential, they do provide something beyond merely existing in Harry's world. They also have more of an emotional impact on Harry in general, whether positive or negative. Harry has numerous male mentor figures, father figures, teachers, friends, acquaintances, and enemies, in contrast with the few important female figures in his life

[sunnyskywalker]

Hermione's case is especially frustrating because there's so much that could have made for a coherent arc. Trying to find her place in the magical world as a Muggle-born, for instance. There's a lot of material, and hints at her struggle (the whole SPEW thing definitely showed a different cultural mindset, e.g., and you could probably do a lot with how she sometimes works through Harry, as with starting the DA, rather than in her own right). But what was her arc? How did this develop over time? Ron's and Harry's were pretty clearly defined. Hermione was very hard done by, I think. Maybe she got stuck delivering so much exposition that she didn't have time to have a fully-developed character arc. It's so unbalanced.