(Untitled)

[deathmallow]

Gacked from redbrunja

Give me a fannish topic and I'll meta for at least 100 words. Then I'll give you a topic to meta on for at least 100 words.

(Fandoms include: THG, ATLA/LoK, BSG, Spartacus, LotR/Tolkien, Neverwinter Nights 2, HP, GoT/ASoIAF, Breaking Bad, Homeland, some Marvel and DC, Firefly, Sleepy Hollow, Les Miz, PotC, or historical)

Comments

[marble_sharp]

100 words? Psh. Add another 0 if you want. ;)

So just why is there a lack of Haymitch ships? And why should there be more?

[deathmallow]

There's a lack of Haymitch ships because a lot of people are unfortunately somewhat shallow and refuse to admit that a middle-aged man, and one with life issues, has the right to be acknowledged as much a romantic or sexual being as a hot twentysomething

[marble_sharp]

All sound thoughts. I definitely agree people's hesitation to ship him with anyone is stemmed from their discomfort in acknowledging that he's an actual (okay fictional) person and not just someone to attach the snarky lines to.

Interesting you brought up his lack of bathing obsession. I commented on trovia's Spin Control pointing out that Haymitch doesn't bathe religiously like it was written in the story. Her reasoning was the same as yours, and you're both right that he should be obsessed with cleaning. So it's such a telling, shocking detail that he isn't

[deathmallow]

I do think there's a tendency to treat him as either the "funny drunk" to laugh at, the "snarky asshole" for Katniss to scream at and even physically beat up "because he deserves it", or the "fortune cookie wisdom" just there to make someone else's romance happen

[marble_sharp]

I will always side-eye the hell out of people who use the 'freely beat Haymitch up because he deserves it and there's no consequences since he's drunk anyway' trope. Like I literally don't care that these are flawed fictional characters, or that it's fan/fiction, that is just so reflective of how some people view addicts I can't even.

The relationship you've established between Haymitch and water is really cool. He's almost always in conflict with it in some way. And didn't your last chapter have him realize that he is more like water than a phoenix/fire? That's after he didn't have access to it in the arena so he was compelled to always clean afterwards, yet it was used to torture him so then there's this fear of water itself instead of the fear of feeling unclean and eventually he doesn't need to rely on or fear water when he becomes his own person alongside Johanna and this is like pure symbolism just give me a moment omg

[deathmallow]

I will side-eye them too, absolutely. Haymitch is not there to be abused. Nobody is. I'm still pissed that people don't think Katniss did anything wrong in attacking him and trying to blind him. I can understand she was traumatized and angry and that was why she did it. But you know what? She was still utterly fucking wrong to attack him with the intent of badly hurting him. Stop trying to make excuses for her, people. And of course nobody ever calls her out on it, and she never thinks badly of it or regrets it for a moment, giving the impression it's justifiable and Haymitch deserved it

[deathmallow]

Thanks! Admittedly I dwell a lot more on analysis and headcanon for Haymitch (and Johanna) than the average bear. ;)

[lorata]

Jumping in, I never shipped Haymitch for the same reason I don't actually ship ANY victors, including the Twos -- I couldn't see Haymitch or any of the others actually managing, with how broken they were. I still can't actually write ships for any pairings (canon or no, actually) unless I'm working within someone else's universe as an exercise, but I like when other people write it and make it work.

I totally agree with you, though, I've always been a gen-shipper and know that's more my preference than anything in canon.

(Haymitch/Effie is gross, and does both characters a disservice.)

[deathmallow]

That's fair, I've got no problems with gen-fic preferece because at least you're applying it evenly across the board! I'm more objecting to the people who are all "Oh yeah, K/P are totally shippable, F/A are cute and young and shippable but OH FUCK NO EW NOT HAYMITCH." It's a nasty, shallow double standard.

I tend to think victors work best with each other because of being able to deeply understand and cope with each other's traumas in a way non-victors just can't. But clearly, not everybody will work together. Like I write in AFAF, I feel some victor combos just set each other's triggers off (Rice from Eleven is like this), and some victors just really want to forget and take on other ties instead (Lizzie from Six).

H/E is one of the few ships I would consign to fiery oblivion in a heartbeat. It just offends me on so many levels.

[penfold_x]

There's a lack of Haymitch ships because a lot of people are unfortunately somewhat shallow and refuse to admit that a middle-aged man, and one with life issues, has the right to be acknowledged as much a romantic or sexual being as a hot twentysomething.

Nailed it.

I'm a predominantly gen fan, but I can see why some characters could or 'should' end up together romantically. In my headcanon, Haymitch isn't with anyone for the same reasons I don't have most victors with anyone--too much trauma, too removed from what others could understand.

But given the way I have seen a lot of the fandom describe Haymitch and the other over-40 characters, I'm pretty sure that the main reason for most of fandom is that 'old' people just can't understand love the way people barely out of their teens can, or are too physically decrepit to picture in the sexual act. Which is so ridiculous I don't even know where to begin (it's people who have been married for 50 years who really understand romantic love, kids). For example, many of the descriptions

[deathmallow]

Like I just told lorataprose, if you're saying "All the victors feel too fucked up to me to have successful romantic relationships" I'll disagree but I absolutely respect you for your fairness. I only object to this common perception of "Everyone is shippable but Haymitch (and often Johanna as well)."

Because it really is age bias and discomfort at the idea of a 40-y-o man learning to love, enjoying sex, etc. Personally, I really don't give a shit about the perception and romances of teenagers (historical teenagers who were more akin to adults excepted). It bores me because generally they're self-centered and they don't actually know squat, frankly.

Absolutely agreed Haymitch is not in prime state, although I take "he's such a wreck" with a grain of salt because we have only the word of a 16-y-o girl who clearly dislikes him to boot describing him. Overstatement and making him sound worse than the reality is likely.