A Poll to Humor Your Statistically Inclined Hostess ...

[dawn_felagund]

I am working on a post for The Heretic Loremaster and am really curious about how people see the attack on Sirion and its aftermath as it relates to Maedhros and Maglor, and Elrond and Elros. I would appreciate the input of anyone who wishes to take the following poll

Comments

[rhapsody11]

Fun questions, especially two had me going like, wait a minute, what am I clicking here :) It might be fanon, where is Tinni's site!

[dawn_felagund]

And, in truth, I'm really only interested in one of the set of replies! The others are used either as comparisons or so that my purposes aren't immediately clear (thus, biasing responses). Mwhaha! ;)

[rhapsody11]

Hehehe :) It made me think how much fanfic I read over the years and how much that influenced in what I consider canonical and what not. Besides the fact that the professor gave the character Maedhros and Maglor quite some thought and attributed first ideas to another, so that gave me pause as well. I can't wait to see what goes up at your blog about this!

[dawn_felagund]

It made me think how much fanfic I read over the years and how much that influenced in what I consider canonical and what not.

I know! I'm as influenced by fanon as anyone else, despite my frequent railing about it. ;) Like my comment to blslarner way down the bottom of this post, when she brought up the waterfall story, my first thought: "Dude! Totally canon! It's in the HoMe!"

...

A half-hour later, having searched the HoMe on "waterfall" and "water" (do you know how many times the &*%$ word "water" is in the HoMe??), I couldn't find it. Doing a Google search finally led me to an essay with a reference ... to Tolkien's letters.

If I didn't have a stack of ebooks, an Internet connection, and a half-hour that I should have been spending on schoolwork, then I would have sworn it was canon. Why? Because it's in so many fanfics, of course! ;)

[rhapsody11]

lmao! I know, I so know. Still you know that discussion we have/had over Maglor... it is actually predated when I started to read so much silm fic, so where they heck I've read it or started to formulate such a conclusion after reading so much of the professor's works: I just can't recall and I also didn't had the time to relocate it. I by now just have to ask Isil, she probably remembers because it's something of more than four years ago and then my fannish experience was well, just musing and coming up with stuff with her :)

A half-hour later, having searched the HoMe on "waterfall" and "water" (do you know how many times the &*%$ word "water" is in the HoMe??), I couldn't find it. Doing a Google search finally led me to an essay with a reference ... to Tolkien's letters.*Keeps her knees desperately crossed while reading this

[dawn_felagund]

I think the idea of Maglor being burned or scarred makes perfect sense given the canon (since we know that Morgoth was burned and scarred by the Silmaril), I've just never found a place where it directly says so. It's absolutely not a fanon that bothers me because it is based really heavily in canon and just makes sense. And I know that if I ever found a passage where it is stated as canon, you'd be the first to know! :)

I think the essay on Elrond's name might be The Problem of 'Ros,' (HoMe XII) but I haven't looked that up; I believe that it is the last word on the meaning of Elros's name, and that Elrond is discussed as well.

I still very muchly agree with Sirielle though with her comments on hostages, because after all isn't history written by those who claim victory and nobody wants to hear the story of the other side?Yes, I agree wholeheartedly with this! JRRT wrote his stories as histories. He had a clear narrator in mind for all of them, and that narrator had a purpose. We can see this in studying the HoMe, where he gave his

[sirielle]

"I think the idea of Maglor being burned or scarred makes perfect sense given the canon (since we know that Morgoth was burned and scarred by the Silmaril), I've just never found a place where it directly says so."

Didn't the Silmaril burn Maedhros' hand? If so it did the same with Maglor's, that was the final confirmation that they do not deserve the stones any more.

Yup, here it is:

"But the jewel burned the hand of Maedhros in pain unbearable; and he perceived that it was as Eönwë had said, and that his right thereto had become void, and that the oath was vain. And being in anguish and despair he cast himself into a gaping chasm filled with fire, and so ended; and the Silmaril that he bore was taken into the bosom of the Earth,

And it is told of Maglor that he could not endure the pain with which the Silmaril tormented him; and he cast it at last into the Sea, and thereafter he wandered ever upon the shores, singing in pain and regret beside the waves. For Maglor was mighty among the singers of old, named only after Daeron of

[sirielle]

it is told of Maglor

Ha! Yes! It is told, not necessarily what has really happened to him! Now I can ignore that lien about him wandering endlessly and never coming back to his own people as a romantic tale of the future generations ;>

[I should really go to bed now!]

[dawn_felagund]

You can! If no one knows what happened to him, then how can anyone claim to know what happened to him?? ;)

[I should really go to bed now!]

Yes you should. ;) If my time zones are correct, it is almost 4 am!

[sirielle]

Again we were typing the same time XD
OK, now I'm really going to bed.

[dawn_felagund]

Sorry, Rhapsody and I have been having this discussion for so long that I wasn't being perfectly clear. (I think all one of us has to do is say "Maglor hand," and immediately a wealth of past discussion comes to mind! :)

I know that Maglor's hand was immediately burned by the Silmaril. What I contest is in canon is that this pain endured, and his hand was scarred and blackened by the Silmaril.

Rhapsody's pretty sure it's in canon somewhere, maybe the HoMe, but we haven't found it yet ... it's rather like the search for Maglor: We like to hope it's out there, we're sustained by that possibility, but we just haven't found it yet! :)

[sirielle]

Now I see, I have no data on that, but maybe I'll find something in a thread of Maglor's final destiny over Hobbiton, where I plan to check later if anyone has already posted the blasphemy focused on "it is told" ;)

Good night now, it's 4 AM here!

[sirielle]

And one day I'll find a word or two to nitpick and doubt reliability of the pitiful ending of Mr Nelyafinwë in a gaping chasm filled with fire!