A Poll to Humor Your Statistically Inclined Hostess ...
I am working on a post for The Heretic Loremaster and am really curious about how people see the attack on Sirion and its aftermath as it relates to Maedhros and Maglor, and Elrond and Elros. I would appreciate the input of anyone who wishes to take the following poll
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A half-hour later, having searched the HoMe on "waterfall" and "water" (do you know how many times the &*%$ word "water" is in the HoMe??), I couldn't find it. Doing a Google search finally led me to an essay with a reference ... to Tolkien's letters.
*Keeps her knees desperately crossed while reading this*
There is a lot of water in HOME, poor you! Blame Ulmo and his crew ;) There might have been a reference to star foam somewhere in HOME or Elrond visiting a dome in Doriath or somewhat close. I recall reading something like that and I saved that bit in a text file because I thought it would make a fascinating one shot, but hormones makes my mind an utter chaos at the moment. No, I know that I am not helping here, but I thought that would gave also some clues about Elrond's naming. I still very muchly agree with Sirielle though with her comments on hostages, because after all isn't history written by those who claim victory and nobody wants to hear the story of the other side? Its far more easy to describe such an action as kids taken hostage, but when you come to think of it, would they not describe those two as far more cruel if they just walked away and did not look back? After Doriath, I surely would see Maedhros doing everything to make sure the boys were taken care off and not left to starve after their mom just basically abandoned them (in that sense I do agree with Oshun, it just feels like madness that a mother still gets the label heroine after she leaves her own kids like that. But then this mom probably has different priorities.
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I think the essay on Elrond's name might be The Problem of 'Ros,' (HoMe XII) but I haven't looked that up; I believe that it is the last word on the meaning of Elros's name, and that Elrond is discussed as well.
I still very muchly agree with Sirielle though with her comments on hostages, because after all isn't history written by those who claim victory and nobody wants to hear the story of the other side?
Yes, I agree wholeheartedly with this! JRRT wrote his stories as histories. He had a clear narrator in mind for all of them, and that narrator had a purpose. We can see this in studying the HoMe, where he gave his major narrators histories and stories of their own. I think it's foolish to expect that a scholar in medieval literature would not have been aware of how that literature (even that which claims to be "history") is shaped by both the writer's perspective (bias, missing information, etc.) and the political climate (what a writer is not permitted to write or what it benefits him/her to write, etc.) and the plain ol' drive to create an interesting story. I noted in a comment to you below this one that I wonder if that is why JRRT's Silm characters drift into a neater good-evil dichotomy as his writings progress; his narrators simply wouldn't have seen shades of gray where many events and characters were concerned.
On Elwing, I think she is one of the best examples. She and her people lusted for the Silmaril as much as the Feanorians and brought the attack on Sirion through their stubbornness, greed, and inaction as sure as the Feanorians did with fire and sword. She is viewed as a heroine because, of course, she brought the Silmaril to Valinor and finally moved the Valar to action. (Itself suspicious, as Tarion once noted!) If her story had ended differently, I wonder if she would be viewed differently. Regardless of the consequences, though, that doesn't change that she left her small children over a rock; how many people scorn Feanor for leading his adult children to war for the same supposed purpose? (And Feanor, too, was motivated most strongly by revenge for Finwe's death; Elwing and Earendil's people wanted the Silmaril because they believed that it brought them prosperity.)
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Didn't the Silmaril burn Maedhros' hand? If so it did the same with Maglor's, that was the final confirmation that they do not deserve the stones any more.
Yup, here it is:
"But the jewel burned the hand of Maedhros in pain unbearable; and he perceived that it was as Eönwë had said, and that his right thereto had become void, and that the oath was vain. And being in anguish and despair he cast himself into a gaping chasm filled with fire, and so ended; and the Silmaril that he bore was taken into the bosom of the Earth,
And it is told of Maglor that he could not endure the pain with which the Silmaril tormented him; and he cast it at last into the Sea, and thereafter he wandered ever upon the shores, singing in pain and regret beside the waves. For Maglor was mighty among the singers of old, named only after Daeron of Doriath; but he came never back among the people of the Elves. And thus it came to pass that the Silmarils found their long homes: one in the airs of heaven, and one in the fires of the heart of the world, and one in the deep waters."
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Ha! Yes! It is told, not necessarily what has really happened to him! Now I can ignore that lien about him wandering endlessly and never coming back to his own people as a romantic tale of the future generations ;>
[I should really go to bed now!]
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[I should really go to bed now!]
Yes you should. ;) If my time zones are correct, it is almost 4 am!
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OK, now I'm really going to bed.
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I know that Maglor's hand was immediately burned by the Silmaril. What I contest is in canon is that this pain endured, and his hand was scarred and blackened by the Silmaril.
Rhapsody's pretty sure it's in canon somewhere, maybe the HoMe, but we haven't found it yet ... it's rather like the search for Maglor: We like to hope it's out there, we're sustained by that possibility, but we just haven't found it yet! :)
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Good night now, it's 4 AM here!
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