Talking cabbages and the special room

[davefreer]

I see sf it is no longer talking squids in space but talking cabbages from planet X that now define sf. If not in your book you're right in there with Margaret Atwood and writing literary fiction ( http://news.ansible.co.uk/a267.html ) Note to self. Put talking cabbage in next book

Comments

finagle preserve us from murphy

[reverancepavane]

You consider Saint Vidicon of Cathode to be non-PC? Heresy! Admittedly if the Cathodean Order actually existed I know quite a few people that would join, including myself, so I might be biased. Although I think my spiritual home is probably to be found in Alan Dean Foster's United Church, which, come to think about it, is not that dissimilar.
Of course neither the Catholic church or the difference between belief and faith is particularly PC...
Has it really been four years since his last book? Still, there was a gap of 11 years between the 2nd and 3rd, so...

Re: finagle preserve us from murphy

[davefreer]

grin of course yes. It is obligatory to have the Catholic church (in any form, even a tongue-in-cheek one) as the force of eeeeevil and world dominance conspiracy. It's just about as obligatorily PC as the good Pagan. Forty years ago these were rebellious positions. Now St. Vidicon is a rebel ;-/. Shrug. I'm not Catholic and they probably were the most plausible villians at times and places in Italian history. I have to admit that I am mildly amused though that PC now means 'Dan Brown was right'. Having a poke with a sharp stick at a dominant force is what sf should do. Giving a supine one a good kicking doesn't really do it for me.

Re: finagle preserve us from murphy

[reverancepavane]

Modern writers such as Dan Brown have added very little to the canon of conspiracy "fiction." Or even some of the actual historical events where accurate documentation remains. As Mr Clements said, fiction must be believable, reality doesn't need to be. It's a fun and entertaining field.
[And the hallmark of a good conspiracy is that it has to be hidden and ferreted out. So attempting to write conspiracy fiction about modern neocon born agains would take a very good author. Then again, apparently Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials was the most-challenged book in the American public library system last year. Children's authors can get away with being far more subversive, I find. ]
Although this had made me realise that every time I've invoked a conspiracy in the Church (at least in the last two decade or so), it's actually been as a force for hidden good. Now is that the not-so-hidden Discordian in me, or simply the fact that when playing Call of Cthulhu, it's easy for players to discover there are worse things out there...

[qbzzt]

I don't have a problem with _some_ of that, but where are the right wing?

Published by Baen, apparently. The guiding principle of Tom Kratman's Desert Called Peace series is to give the Tranzis what they want, in the way they least want it. His books make John Ringo appear apolitical.

Religious books, I don't know. The one good religious fantasy I read recently came from Nordskog. But the one really religious science fiction book is the Tuloriad, again from Baen. BTW, I'd love to see a religious book from you. My mythological ancestor haggled with God. I'd be interesting is seeing the same attitude in a more modern book.

I'm pretty sure there is pent up demand for right wing literature, analogous to the demand for right wing news proved by blogs. Maybe your new epublishing idea would be able to capitalize on it too.

[davefreer]

Baen, to give them credit LONG overdue do publish right across the spectrum. Name a political/social viewpoint and I'll name you Baen author whose books take that view. It's something that deserves respect and enormous kudos. However they are -- I suspect -- punished for this (and not by readers, but by the establishment.) Look, if you're in publishing to sell, the reality is that society has members who read of just about ever viewpoint, and A HUGE SHEDLOAD - probably in the region of 60% who don't care to be overtly preached at - not by anyone. So the logical choice is to provide the entire spectrum, dominated by books that if they have an agenda are deep covert about it.

[qbzzt]

Name a political/social viewpoint and I'll name you Baen author whose books take that view.

Support for the nanny state. I don't read everything that comes out of Baen, but I seriously doubt they publish that. Otherwise, I agree.

Webscriptions is a way to go around the establishment (= Simon Schuster and the book stores).

[unixronin]

Personally, if its judges are that ignorant, I can't say I have much use for the Booker Prize. I suppose it's consistent with the Booker Prize being, in large extent, apparently given for the best non-threatening book hearkening wistfully back to Victorian and Edwardian England - presumably by judges who long for a return to such an era.

[davefreer]

I've oddly only found the australian sf/fantasy awards anywhere near the real purpose (as I see it) of contests - ie to raise the profile of really good books and act as a commendation of sorts to readers... there are very few of those. Of course they're young and idealistic in Oz sf still which is kinda neat.

[reverancepavane]

Then again, I've only ever seen one international release ever trumpet the fact that it won a Ditmar (the Australian National SF award). [I believe it was a book by Larry Niven.]

[alphastk]

Getting too worked up about any contest or fumbling literatsi like Mr. Mullan is an exercise in futility. The view from their crumbling ivory towers changes continuously but, thanks to the wonder of their built-in rose-colored windows, their own little literary fiefdoms will remain entirely unassailed by reality (at least until the day comes when their paychecks stop coming because nobody cares about them anymore

[davefreer]

I'm not getting worked up about it Dar. But mocking the dumbass statement is a civic duty, as is making sure a few less folk are gulled by the value of a commendation from that sort of moron.

I'm pleased to hear your sf/fantasy is growing. It's still shrinking here.

I'm less convinced that the death of the current establishment and their effect on the popularity of my favorite genre are imminent. I hope e-pub changes the equation, but the powers that be currently are clingling on there tooth and nail. Trying to control it and kill it too before it devours them.

[denelian]

oh, this was one of the points i lost...

i think what you are seeing isn't so much a "shrinkage" of Sci-fi, but rather a stricter interpretation of it. do you remember when "vampires" were sci-fi, and to find an Anne Rice book you had to find the Sci-fi section?

the local libraries have now seperated "sci-fi/fan" into: science fiction (hard); science fiction (soft); traditional fantasy; urban fantasy; "quote"punk (cyberpunk, steampunk, etc); historical fantasy; alternate history; horror; suspense; sci-fi horror; fantasy horror; distopic and utopic fiction; other.

so Discworld books are, variously, filed under "traditional fantasy", "alternate history". "sci-fi, soft (the "Science of Discworld" trilogy) and "fantasy horror". the same series - it is dependent upon which person entered them into the system. and they are *shelved* acording to "sub-genre

[denelian]

erm - not to sound screechy, but - *YOU* have published "religious" sci-fi novels -

because what is more sci-fi than an alien invasion? and what is more religious than going to war against an entire *pantheon* of Gods?
and then you did it *again*, switching pantheons, and btw have left me hanging over this cliff that i am so entirely sick of i want to see Loki kick Odin's over-entitled ASS already!i pretty much buy 3 kinds of books

[qbzzt]

Pyramid is only religious if you follow that pantheon. So it is religious for some neopagans, although I don't know of many that follow the Greek Gods.

The majority of the literature buying public, though, is binaristic (either monothestic - 1, or atheistic - 0). For members of this group, Pyramid is not really religious, merely mythological.

[denelian]

i see the point you are making, but... i was raised Pagan (still am, just lazy), and i don't really see a difference between "religion" and "mytholody" except for what the class is called on my college transcript :) but i can see how people who are raise to a monotheistic tradition (or no tradition at all) can view these as not religious at all

[qbzzt]

The difference is in the eye of the beholder. However, it is not purely subjective.

Mythology can be about weird stories that other people believe. Religion is about weird stories that you believe. Thus, as a Jew, I see the story of God becoming a man, getting crucified, and rising from the dead as a combination of history (the Romans really did crucify people in 1st century Judea) and mythology. A Christian would see it as religion.

The difference is both in the reader and the author. If I were to write the story of Jesus's life, it would be a human tragedy, possibly compounded by delusions. If a Christian were to write the same story, it would be the story of God, descending into the bottom of human suffering to redeem us all.

Do you know any Asatruers who read Pyramid Power? If so, what was their reaction?