Talking cabbages and the special room

[davefreer]

I see sf it is no longer talking squids in space but talking cabbages from planet X that now define sf. If not in your book you're right in there with Margaret Atwood and writing literary fiction ( http://news.ansible.co.uk/a267.html ) Note to self. Put talking cabbage in next book

Comments

[denelian]

i see the point you are making, but... i was raised Pagan (still am, just lazy), and i don't really see a difference between "religion" and "mytholody" except for what the class is called on my college transcript :) but i can see how people who are raise to a monotheistic tradition (or no tradition at all) can view these as not religious at all.
but (again) if there are people in the book who *do* worship them, or at least acknowledge them (main characters, even!) doesn't that argue that there is at least *some* religion involved? what is the difference between religion and mythology? is there any difference beyond personal belief? (i am asking for fun, feel free to laugh at my earnest metaphysical construction if you wish :p )

i know a lot of people who follow Norse Gods. i know almost as many who follow Isis, Horus, or both (no one seems to like Ra, for some reason). i grant i only know one person who follows anything Greek, and she only does so sometimes (Athene and Artemis, and that's it). i know lots of people who worship "the Christian God" and claim that "the Jewish God" and "the Muslim God" are not God at all, despite the very clear evidence that they are. i don't know... i guess there is some definition for a "religious novel" that i don't know? is there something i missed entirely?

[qbzzt]

The difference is in the eye of the beholder. However, it is not purely subjective.

Mythology can be about weird stories that other people believe. Religion is about weird stories that you believe. Thus, as a Jew, I see the story of God becoming a man, getting crucified, and rising from the dead as a combination of history (the Romans really did crucify people in 1st century Judea) and mythology. A Christian would see it as religion.

The difference is both in the reader and the author. If I were to write the story of Jesus's life, it would be a human tragedy, possibly compounded by delusions. If a Christian were to write the same story, it would be the story of God, descending into the bottom of human suffering to redeem us all.

Do you know any Asatruers who read Pyramid Power? If so, what was their reaction?

[denelian]

oooooooooh... that is a very helpful analogy, by the way, and makes it easier for me to understand what you meant.

i do know several people who are Asatru, or at least follow one or the other of those Gods (most follow Thor, or Frigga [i don't know why] specifically). the main general reaction i got from the couple who had read the second Pyramid was "wow, i never thought of Loki that way. oh, hey, look what we did - we are stupid, no matter how we try to change we still carry around our childhood indoctrination! Loki is *not* Satan. not that i'm going to go off and start saying prayers to the red-head-trickster, mind, but..."
also that yes Thor was every bit that stupid and how refreshing it is to see someone "getting" that stupid doesn' equal bad :)

i think, mostly, people who happen to follow any Nordic trads are going to read it and the reaction will be "look how much is right! how amazing is that? and how simple it all looks with some plastic sheeting to spare the pain..." but i could be wrong, there could be people really really pissed off by it.

changing topic a bit: i was raised pagan, but very *open* pagan. our second "law" is that all religions are true (have truth, whatever). the exact quote is "God is everywhere and everything - religion is a pair of glasses that let one see God". (no, i don't know what the quote would have been before there were glasses, i can't actually trace the religion in the family back before about 1830 anyway. so i don't think it matters) so - i don't think i have ever read mythology and had it be "just" stories. if that makes sense... but that is probably where part of the confusion (on my end, i mean) comes from.

[davefreer]

It's interesting to note that Loki and tricksters in most pantheons have a stronger 'common touch' and are know for helping out the weak ordinary folk. The boss-gods - Odin in Loki's case, are usually remarkably like the aristocracy of the time, and serve to legimate their behavior (if it's good enough for god...) There is also often a strong element of caste - Odin was the God-of-choice of the nobility, Thor of the warrior-class. For someone as anti-hereditary classes as me, that's a bit ick.