Sadness Baths and Geopolitical Problem Solving: Aka Cy has thoughts

[cypanache]

Normally I would just post this over on tumblr but it's long and tumblr hates me right now.  So the point is I have now seen 'The Treaty' twice and have watched the preview clip for 'Smallest Park'.  And given this and what I've read of the spoilers for the next two episodes, I have some thoughts that I'm working through regarding this arc.

These

Comments

[rikyl]

I was quick to take Ben's side in this ep but spent a lot of today considering Leslie's POV. First of all, I think she's not okay with just friendship either, but she's trying to convince herself she is. She looked so unhappy when she was describing what a friend is vs. what a boyfriend is, it seemed pretty clear to me that she wanted the love and marriage part of it with Ben. But is trying to make the best of a bad situation by having him in her life in some way. I don't think she'd be happy being friends with Ben forever, though--she's just not facing the reality entirely yet. I can't picture her getting over him or moving on while Ben is still in her life. I keep thinking of the last scene of Soulmates, where even though she hasn't figured out how it's going to work with Ben, she decided she didn't want to even consider anyone else.

I'm also really bothered by Leslie not respecting Ben's boundaries, and it was something I was worried about seeing this season, but I've also started to take some of her lines from The Treaty more literally. I think she might actually feel betrayed by the fact that Ben broke up with her in such a supportive, understanding way but then proceeded to cut her completely out of his life. And she's really hurt by the fact that he's willing to give her up, even if they can't be together in the ideal way they want. (What are you going to do without tides, Peru?) So that's making it more sympathetic in my mind.

I have no idea how they're going to finagle a reunion so quickly, but the thought crossed my mind today, based on Leslie's craziness lately, that she might just impulsively, in the middle of fighting with him about this, grab him and physically drag him into Chris's office to declare their relationship. Not a great way to get back together (and probably not how they'll go) but something impulsive and sudden like that almost seems more plausible for the time span than them thoughtfully discussing and deciding to get back together. And then ... obviously things would be rocky for a bit, but that could be entertaining.

But either way, it does look like we're faced with Leslie choosing him only when she's faced with losing him, and that's not all that I hoped to get out of this arc, for sure. But maybe if they have a less-than-ideal reunion, that will leave some unresolved issues to keep their arc interesting through the rest of the season. And someday after we see how much Leslie loves Ben, she'll make it up to us by being the one to propose. :)

[cypanache]

I completely agree that she probably wouldn't have been happy being friends with Ben forever, I just had kind of wished for her to face her dissatisfaction with it rather than Ben forcing the question. But as I said above I think Leslie is still in this place where she needs the emotional jumpstart of prospectively losing Ben.

Like we talked about on chat. I think this a good character observation about Leslie feeling betrayed. I also think there's a potential that Ben is unintentionally leading her on, by letting himself be talked into trying to be friends and then realizing he can't only to try to take a step back, and then letting himself get talked into it all over again. So I think for all his efforts at forthrightness, given Leslie's emotional state he's sending some mixed messages.

[rikyl]

I was thinking today for some reason about Ben confessing his feelings to Leslie in Road Trip. What he said was basically, translated: I like to hang out with you, I find you attractive, and we share similar interests. And that is almost exactly how Leslie feels about him. It just got me thinking about the admiration aspect of it and what that has to do with actually falling in love ... the moments we think of Ben "falling" for Leslie are really more like Ben crushing on Leslie, because you can admire someone without actually being romantically compatible with them. And the real falling part seems to happen once they're spending more time together, laughing together, having fun together, fitting together. So the fact that Leslie thinks of her feelings for Ben in terms of how well he fits with her actually might be fairly comparable to his feelings for her. And that explains why he is so much more lovesick now after having a brief relationship with her than he was when they were just working together.

Is this making any sense? If it does, it seems like a direct contradiction of things I wrote to you a few weeks ago about professional admiration such a big deal for their relationship.

The other thought I had is about Leslie talking about wanting to make out with him and how much that means, because I think from her romantic history we know that she doesn't have those feelings based solely on physical attraction. There are traits and personality qualities she's attracted to, and it seems like she wouldn't be attracted to the cute guy who likes her over time unless he was also intelligent, hardworking, passionate, etc. It makes me think the admiration we've been looking for is already there and has probably been growing steadily since, say, Time Capsule, and the rest--how fun he is to be around, how much he supports her, etc--has grown on top of that. So when I think of it like that it makes more sense to me that this storyline is more about her realizing feelings than developing them.

Anyway. I know you pretty much worked through your thoughts on this already, but I just thought I'd throw these out there and see if they stuck to anything.

[cypanache]

I think that could be a fair interpretation of the storyline. Like I said a lot of my issues stem from this whole 'inkblot' problem I have with Leslie.

And I completely agree that you need all of the other components in your life the similar interests and the fact that you fit, etc. Those things are really how you fall in love with someone.

The admiration thing though . . . it's not that I don't think Leslie could be in love with Ben without it. Because I think she can and may in fact already be there. It's that and this is a bad comparison but I'm having trouble thinking of a better one early in the morning. But without the admiration of the other person, the recognition and belief that there are things they bring to a relationship and to the world at which they are so much better than you, you have that danger of taking that person for granted. Like an 'invisible housewife' whose husband doesn't see everything she does and all that she contributes (this is not to say all housewives are invisible please nobody go there). I think everyone in a serious long-term relationship should admire their spouse's talent in something beyond just what they give. But even in Road Trip when she was complimenting Ben on getting the bid for them it was prefaced by 'usually I do it, but this time you did,' which honestly is kind of a backhanded compliment.

I also don't want them falling into the relationship we've seen Leslie have with Ann. Where she feels like she somehow has to oversee her friends life, or otherwise she just stands still.

We should be clear here. This is not all on Leslie. Ben has not necessarily given her a chance to see anything like that. But as I said, I will continue to want it, until I get it.

[rikyl]

Okay, I see what you mean, and I would love to see that too. He definitely brings something to the relationship, in being more grounded and practical than she is. I'm not convinced everything that happened for her last season would have gone as well and led to being approached for the city council seat if he hadn't talked to her about responsibility initially and then helped her every step of the way with the festival. We didn't see it, but I just assume he made all the numbers work, and if he hadn't ... (I really really want to see that It's a Wonderful Life AU to explore this :). She did give him half the credit at the end of Harvest Festival, but like you said, the line in Road Trip kind of diminishes that. Maybe she just meant in terms of which of them is more known to passionately defend Pawnee. But she is Marlene's daughter, so no matter how much she loves and appreciates someone, it may sometimes come out sounding ... backhanded.

Leslie seems kind of unsure of herself this season regarding the political campaign, trusting people like Tom who she likes but doesn't necessarily trust in that way, and unquestioningly going along with the advice of advisers she doesn't know well. I'm making things up at this point, but I picture her missing Ben in those moments of self-doubt, because she trusts him and respects his opinions. So I hope once they're reunited and he's part of her campaign, we'll see more of her appreciating that.