Conversations about gender identity
This stuff has come up lately...
11:47:15 PM This Guy: Hey. [Person]'s player is a dude, right?
11:47:24 PM This Guy: I'm 99% sure
11:47:33 PM Me: If she were, it wouldn't be /my/ place to confirm or deny.
11:47:51 PM This Guy: Someone else confirmed it
11:47:59 PM This Guy: And I dug online
11:48:08 PM This Guy: (I did the digging first)
11:48:12 PM Me: heh
11:48:31 PM This Guy: But in a conversation, he/she denied it outright
11:48:42 PM This Guy: Bothers me. I don't like ooc lying
11:48:43 PM Me: this is my general policy on gender identification: If you identify as a woman, you're a woman. Saying you're a woman is the truth.
11:49:07 PM Me: Having a penis does not make you a man, having a vagina does not make you a woman. Biology != gender identity.
11:49:22 PM This Guy: My policy is a little less fluid than that.
11:49:26 PM This Guy: And to be clear
11:49:44 PM This Guy: I don't care in terms of my interaction with their chars or the person
11:49:55 PM This Guy: Ts or whatever. Never bothered me
11:50:04 PM This Guy: I just don't like being lied to in rl
11:50:07 PM Me: Well, as someone who knows transgendered people, I choose to adopt what makes them comfortable and happy, versus what makes /me/ comfortable and happy and /them/ uncomfortable and miserable.
11:50:26 PM Me: If someone who identifies as a woman tells you they're a woman, they're not lying to you. That's the thing.
11:50:34 PM Me: Transgendered people aren't going around lying.
11:50:35 PM This Guy: Don't misunderstand: I know a number of trans peoplke
11:51:34 PM This Guy: It's not that to which I'm objecting
11:51:55 PM This Guy: Ooc/rl deception is.... A major thing for me
11:52:21 PM Me: You're... kinda still saying that a transgendered person informing a person what their gender identity is makes them a liar.
11:52:38 PM This Guy: So if I perceive someone is being deceptive, I am negatively impacted
11:52:59 PM This Guy: Regardless of whether they're actually being deceptive
11:53:26 PM Me: Are you sure that in this case, that might be your own problem? They're not lying, but you're somehow feeling deceived in spite of them not deceiving.
11:53:36 PM Me: man I grammarfailed, but you get me
11:53:58 PM Me: I mean, really. she's a woman. she says she's a woman. she is a woman. that's her identity. she's not lyin'.
11:54:56 PM This Guy: Perhaps
11:55:54 PM Me: I get pretty firm on this because issues of identity are so goddamn important. if we don't get to define our identity, and/or if people insist on telling us we're wrong about who we say we are or tell us that we are wrong to want to be who we are, then that's catastrophically harmful
11:57:01 PM Me: we live in a society that's so goddamn hellbent on making sure everyone fits neatly into the constrictive gender identity boxes that people would rather die than endure the horrors of stepping outside these "norms"
11:57:59 PM Me: when most of them are just constructs we make for no real rhyme or reason to begin with. it's just a shitty world. so god, if someone feels that inside, they are a woman, and they say they are, then to me they just are.
11:58:24 PM Me: and it's not even remotely my place to try to quiz them about how far along in transition physically or socially they are.
At that point, he stopped speaking to me.
And then just now:
9:50:14 AM This Gal: [Person] is a DUDE??
2:01:37 PM Me: [Person] identifies as a woman. So, no.
2:02:26 PM This Gal: Okay
2:02:31 PM This Gal: but the player is a male
2:02:35 PM This Gal: regardless of how they identify
2:02:39 PM This Gal: anatomically
2:02:42 PM This Gal: male
2:02:44 PM Me: That's not how that works
2:02:52 PM Me: She was born with a penis, but she's female.
2:03:01 PM This Gal: Yeah I have issues with this.
2:03:13 PM This Gal: I have no problem with people identifying as the opposite sex
2:03:13 PM Me: Those are your issues, then. Gender identity is not for you to assign.
2:03:31 PM This Gal: what I don't understand is saying you are something when scientifically you are not.
2:03:50 PM Me: You don't understand it because you aren't transgender.
2:04:11 PM This Gal: If you walk into a doctor's office
2:04:14 PM Me: But believe me, biology != gender identity.
2:04:15 PM This Gal: you put down if you're male or female
2:04:21 PM This Gal: based on parts
2:04:29 PM This Gal: not on what you believe or feel which I have no problem with.
2:04:48 PM Me: Yes, you do, and if you're a new patient, you mark 'female' and then note that you are transgender.
2:04:52 PM This Gal: Actually it's a lot easier for me to be like.. "So and so is transgender"
2:05:06 PM Me: "Transgender" is not their gender identity.
2:05:10 PM Me: That is not how they want to be known. Would YOU?
2:05:39 PM This Gal: Yeah I would be like this is who I am. I have male parts
2:05:42 PM This Gal: but I feel female
2:05:58 PM This Gal: everything I do other than this one part is female
2:06:10 PM Me: You can feel really comfortable saying that, because you have never had to deal with actually being in that position.
2:06:17 PM This Gal: but a female don't get prostate cancer.
2:06:33 PM Me: But the truth is, when you are a woman born with male parts, it's a horrible awful thing to try to deal with.
2:06:40 PM This Gal: Yes I don't deny that.
2:06:46 PM Me: Because the world is SO fucking HELLBENT on putting us all in these constricted gender identity boxes.
2:06:53 PM This Gal: I don't deny that there is a lot of obstacles.
2:06:59 PM Me: And the HELLFIRE that gets lashed out by society for anyone who steps outside of them
2:07:00 PM This Gal: I am only looking at it from a health perspective.
2:07:08 PM Me: is so intense, that people would rather DIE than step outside of them
2:07:19 PM Me: health perspective? you are not their doctor, so you don't have to worry about it from a health perspective.
2:07:35 PM This Gal: Like if I had a patient that said to me look, I identify as a woman but I am anatomically a male
2:07:47 PM This Gal: I would treat them as a woman
2:07:49 PM Me: I could only follow this kind of reasoning if you were actually a doctor.
2:07:55 PM Me: This is not about identifying yourself to your medical professionals
2:07:59 PM This Gal: Well then I guess you're narrow minded too
2:08:02 PM Me: but about identifying yourself to people as society
2:08:06 PM Me: oh come ON
2:08:22 PM Me: seriously, using "I'm thinking like a doctor" is not an argument when you're not a doctor
2:08:29 PM This Gal: You're not transgender
2:08:30 PM Me: identifying your body parts is something you do to your doctor
2:08:36 PM This Gal: so I could only take this conversation if you were.
2:08:41 PM Me: you don't go around identifying your body parts to your friends
2:08:45 PM Me: rather
2:08:50 PM Me: strangers who might become your friends
2:08:56 PM Me: or the world as a whole
2:09:15 PM This Gal: There's no point in actually having to admit on a MU anything other than what you want people to know about you if you want them to know anything at all
2:09:24 PM This Gal: I have no problem with [Person] identifying as a woman
2:09:26 PM This Gal: but
2:09:28 PM This Gal: she is a man
2:09:33 PM This Gal: she has male parts inside and out
2:09:36 PM This Gal: nothing wrong with that
2:09:40 PM This Gal: if I had a conversation with her
2:09:43 PM This Gal: I would call her "Her"
2:09:53 PM Me: you are really missing the whole concept of someone who is transgender. they aren't a man if they're a woman. they're a woman if they're a woman.
2:10:06 PM This Gal: biologically
2:10:18 PM Me: biology is not the same as gender identity
2:10:30 PM This Gal: woman and man is biology
2:10:34 PM This Gal: it's chromosomes
2:10:40 PM This Gal: it's science.
2:10:44 PM This Gal: that's it
2:10:53 PM Me: ah, so anyone with XY chromosomes is a man?
2:10:56 PM This Gal: There's no other difference really.
2:11:05 PM This Gal: biologically speaking, they are a man
2:11:06 PM This Gal: now
2:11:06 PM Me: I'm sure you can see that's a trap
2:11:12 PM This Gal: whether they identify with that
2:11:14 PM This Gal: is different.
2:11:14 PM Me: because not all women are XX and not all men are XY
2:11:38 PM Me: I don't feel like going down the niggly road that is, but
2:11:54 PM Me: here's the thing, you are really having a hard time separating gender identity from biology
2:13:09 PM Me: they might be on different points on their journey through transition, but it's nobody's business how far they are... so really, when someone says "I'm a woman" then I accept that whether or not they still have a penis. Because that's who they are and I am not going to argue with who they are.
2:14:11 PM Me: the attitude "you're not really a woman" leads to crazy high suicide rates. I hate that. I want people to live and be happy.
AAaaaand at that point, SHE stopped talking to me.
*throws things*
And it began the conversation again.
2:56:40 PM This Gal: Thank you
2:56:44 PM This Gal: I'm not trying to be insensitive
2:57:01 PM Me: I think it's just you might not know, that's all.
2:57:13 PM This Gal: It's more like.. can we be okay with what we have physically even if we don't identify.
2:58:18 PM This Gal: Like okay, I watched a video a family who went through this with their daughter who from a really young age said she was a boy
2:59:14 PM This Gal: they decided after much counseling because they wanted to make sure their child would be raised in a safe environment to raise her as a boy.
2:59:26 PM Me: I watched that too I think
2:59:31 PM Me: it was wonderful
2:59:46 PM This Gal: but I wonder, can he - the boy - grow up to be proud of his anatomical parts?
3:00:10 PM Me: Why do you wonder that?
3:00:19 PM This Gal: Like I wonder if it would bring less shame?
3:00:32 PM This Gal: like honestly, I don't care what someone has between their legs.
3:00:39 PM Me: Are you sure?
3:00:41 PM This Gal: yeah
3:00:51 PM This Gal: if I raise my daughter to be a boy because that is how this child identified
3:00:55 PM This Gal: I would raise a son
3:01:07 PM This Gal: but there are things that come along with having 'girl' parts
3:01:25 PM This Gal: and I wouldn't want my child to be ashamed of that.
3:01:37 PM Me: You kinda seemed like you cared, when you were really shocked that [Person]'s player might have a penis. You immediately said "[Person]'s player is a DUDE?" when all along you thought she was a woman because that's how she acted and how she identified herself. Suddenly, what's between her legs made you say different things.
3:01:46 PM This Gal: No I was shocked over all the lying.
3:01:52 PM Me: See, there's the...
3:01:56 PM Me: there's the thing
3:01:58 PM Me: it's not /lying/.
3:02:00 PM This Gal: and I didn't actually read what [Person] said.
3:02:05 PM This Gal: Maybe she didn't lie
3:02:09 PM This Gal: but Vex lied
3:02:12 PM This Gal: about other shit
3:02:24 PM This Gal: and who the fuck knows if Vex is even whatever Vex says at this point.
3:02:31 PM Me: [Person] didn't, though. Who cares about Vex.
3:02:42 PM This Gal: so it was a shock to be like oh did she actually come out and say that?
3:02:56 PM This Gal: SO it's archaic to say OMg penis=dude
3:03:02 PM This Gal: that doesn't make me an asshole.
3:03:13 PM Me: I didn't say it did.
3:03:17 PM This Gal: it is classifying based on parts
3:03:18 PM This Gal: but
3:03:26 PM This Gal: I would never say oh well she's a man
3:03:30 PM This Gal: she's transgender
3:03:31 PM Me: I only said that it seemed like you cared.
3:03:33 PM This Gal: that's fine.
3:03:40 PM This Gal: No I don't I was just surprised.
3:03:48 PM This Gal: and the surprise was in that moment
3:03:51 PM This Gal: and then it was gone
3:04:05 PM Me: She identifies as a woman - so I go with what she identifies herself as. if she identified as a 'transwoman' I'd go with transwoman.
3:04:21 PM This Gal: Like oh, no shit I had no idea but that would not change anything I've ever said about her in the past.
3:04:29 PM This Gal: Like I've said [Person] is a dumb chick.
3:04:40 PM This Gal: She's still a dumb chick because of dumb chick shit she did on game.
3:04:59 PM This Gal: And I still call [Person] her
3:05:05 PM Me: yeah.
3:05:06 PM This Gal: so no it does not bother me whatsoever.
3:05:09 PM This Gal: It was a wow
3:05:11 PM This Gal: I had no idea
3:05:20 PM This Gal: and that's a testament of how much of a woman she is.
3:05:27 PM This Gal: she identifies and I agree
3:05:30 PM This Gal: she is a woman
3:05:37 PM Me: cool.
3:06:05 PM This Gal: I always look deeper into situations though because what if I have a child who comes to me at a young age and is like I'm not a girl I'm a boy
3:06:13 PM This Gal: I want to make sure I raise my child with love and support
3:06:15 PM This Gal: no matter what
3:06:21 PM This Gal: and that includes making sure they're healthy
3:07:17 PM This Gal: I want to know if people who do have opposite gender identity can be proud of their bodies.
3:07:38 PM This Gal: because that plays into a person's self-esteem and well being.
3:07:53 PM This Gal: until the person decides gender reassignment is for them
3:07:57 PM This Gal: they have to live with their bodies.
3:08:31 PM This Gal: And I would never want my child to feel ashamed of who they are.
3:08:59 PM Me: being proud of their bodies is a different concept than gender identity, though. and to be honest, most of the time, no, a transgendered person is not going to be proud of the parts of their body that contradict the way they feel about themselves
3:09:18 PM Me: often, those parts of their body are going to be a source of stress, anxiety, anger and shame
3:09:41 PM Me: because they are a constant reminder that they are different and wrong and they're markers that society will use to tell them "No, you are not who you say you are."
3:09:52 PM Me: look at you, you have breasts, you cannot be a man.
3:10:27 PM Me: maybe eventually, after they're well grown, much counseled and comfortable with themselves
3:10:31 PM Me: then maybe they can accept their body parts
3:10:38 PM Me: or maybe they can't and they go through reassignment surgery
3:11:23 PM Me: but because society insists on using body parts to define gender in addition to sex, those parts of them that contradict their identity will always be a source of cognitive dissonance
3:13:03 PM Me: and this may be a point where we got tripped up in communication
3:13:06 PM Me: sex and gander are different.
3:13:28 PM Me: (also sexuality and gender are different, and that often gets mixed up too)
3:14:07 PM Me: here's some more on that, though the video did okay when it explained that model that breaks down into four categories
3:14:07 PM Me: https://www.genderspectrum.org/understanding-gender
3:14:20 PM This Gal: okay
So tired. I was so angry I was crying. This shit is just not okay with me.
11:47:15 PM This Guy: Hey. [Person]'s player is a dude, right?
11:47:24 PM This Guy: I'm 99% sure
11:47:33 PM Me: If she were, it wouldn't be /my/ place to confirm or deny.
11:47:51 PM This Guy: Someone else confirmed it
11:47:59 PM This Guy: And I dug online
11:48:08 PM This Guy: (I did the digging first)
11:48:12 PM Me: heh
11:48:31 PM This Guy: But in a conversation, he/she denied it outright
11:48:42 PM This Guy: Bothers me. I don't like ooc lying
11:48:43 PM Me: this is my general policy on gender identification: If you identify as a woman, you're a woman. Saying you're a woman is the truth.
11:49:07 PM Me: Having a penis does not make you a man, having a vagina does not make you a woman. Biology != gender identity.
11:49:22 PM This Guy: My policy is a little less fluid than that.
11:49:26 PM This Guy: And to be clear
11:49:44 PM This Guy: I don't care in terms of my interaction with their chars or the person
11:49:55 PM This Guy: Ts or whatever. Never bothered me
11:50:04 PM This Guy: I just don't like being lied to in rl
11:50:07 PM Me: Well, as someone who knows transgendered people, I choose to adopt what makes them comfortable and happy, versus what makes /me/ comfortable and happy and /them/ uncomfortable and miserable.
11:50:26 PM Me: If someone who identifies as a woman tells you they're a woman, they're not lying to you. That's the thing.
11:50:34 PM Me: Transgendered people aren't going around lying.
11:50:35 PM This Guy: Don't misunderstand: I know a number of trans peoplke
11:51:34 PM This Guy: It's not that to which I'm objecting
11:51:55 PM This Guy: Ooc/rl deception is.... A major thing for me
11:52:21 PM Me: You're... kinda still saying that a transgendered person informing a person what their gender identity is makes them a liar.
11:52:38 PM This Guy: So if I perceive someone is being deceptive, I am negatively impacted
11:52:59 PM This Guy: Regardless of whether they're actually being deceptive
11:53:26 PM Me: Are you sure that in this case, that might be your own problem? They're not lying, but you're somehow feeling deceived in spite of them not deceiving.
11:53:36 PM Me: man I grammarfailed, but you get me
11:53:58 PM Me: I mean, really. she's a woman. she says she's a woman. she is a woman. that's her identity. she's not lyin'.
11:54:56 PM This Guy: Perhaps
11:55:54 PM Me: I get pretty firm on this because issues of identity are so goddamn important. if we don't get to define our identity, and/or if people insist on telling us we're wrong about who we say we are or tell us that we are wrong to want to be who we are, then that's catastrophically harmful
11:57:01 PM Me: we live in a society that's so goddamn hellbent on making sure everyone fits neatly into the constrictive gender identity boxes that people would rather die than endure the horrors of stepping outside these "norms"
11:57:59 PM Me: when most of them are just constructs we make for no real rhyme or reason to begin with. it's just a shitty world. so god, if someone feels that inside, they are a woman, and they say they are, then to me they just are.
11:58:24 PM Me: and it's not even remotely my place to try to quiz them about how far along in transition physically or socially they are.
At that point, he stopped speaking to me.
And then just now:
9:50:14 AM This Gal: [Person] is a DUDE??
2:01:37 PM Me: [Person] identifies as a woman. So, no.
2:02:26 PM This Gal: Okay
2:02:31 PM This Gal: but the player is a male
2:02:35 PM This Gal: regardless of how they identify
2:02:39 PM This Gal: anatomically
2:02:42 PM This Gal: male
2:02:44 PM Me: That's not how that works
2:02:52 PM Me: She was born with a penis, but she's female.
2:03:01 PM This Gal: Yeah I have issues with this.
2:03:13 PM This Gal: I have no problem with people identifying as the opposite sex
2:03:13 PM Me: Those are your issues, then. Gender identity is not for you to assign.
2:03:31 PM This Gal: what I don't understand is saying you are something when scientifically you are not.
2:03:50 PM Me: You don't understand it because you aren't transgender.
2:04:11 PM This Gal: If you walk into a doctor's office
2:04:14 PM Me: But believe me, biology != gender identity.
2:04:15 PM This Gal: you put down if you're male or female
2:04:21 PM This Gal: based on parts
2:04:29 PM This Gal: not on what you believe or feel which I have no problem with.
2:04:48 PM Me: Yes, you do, and if you're a new patient, you mark 'female' and then note that you are transgender.
2:04:52 PM This Gal: Actually it's a lot easier for me to be like.. "So and so is transgender"
2:05:06 PM Me: "Transgender" is not their gender identity.
2:05:10 PM Me: That is not how they want to be known. Would YOU?
2:05:39 PM This Gal: Yeah I would be like this is who I am. I have male parts
2:05:42 PM This Gal: but I feel female
2:05:58 PM This Gal: everything I do other than this one part is female
2:06:10 PM Me: You can feel really comfortable saying that, because you have never had to deal with actually being in that position.
2:06:17 PM This Gal: but a female don't get prostate cancer.
2:06:33 PM Me: But the truth is, when you are a woman born with male parts, it's a horrible awful thing to try to deal with.
2:06:40 PM This Gal: Yes I don't deny that.
2:06:46 PM Me: Because the world is SO fucking HELLBENT on putting us all in these constricted gender identity boxes.
2:06:53 PM This Gal: I don't deny that there is a lot of obstacles.
2:06:59 PM Me: And the HELLFIRE that gets lashed out by society for anyone who steps outside of them
2:07:00 PM This Gal: I am only looking at it from a health perspective.
2:07:08 PM Me: is so intense, that people would rather DIE than step outside of them
2:07:19 PM Me: health perspective? you are not their doctor, so you don't have to worry about it from a health perspective.
2:07:35 PM This Gal: Like if I had a patient that said to me look, I identify as a woman but I am anatomically a male
2:07:47 PM This Gal: I would treat them as a woman
2:07:49 PM Me: I could only follow this kind of reasoning if you were actually a doctor.
2:07:55 PM Me: This is not about identifying yourself to your medical professionals
2:07:59 PM This Gal: Well then I guess you're narrow minded too
2:08:02 PM Me: but about identifying yourself to people as society
2:08:06 PM Me: oh come ON
2:08:22 PM Me: seriously, using "I'm thinking like a doctor" is not an argument when you're not a doctor
2:08:29 PM This Gal: You're not transgender
2:08:30 PM Me: identifying your body parts is something you do to your doctor
2:08:36 PM This Gal: so I could only take this conversation if you were.
2:08:41 PM Me: you don't go around identifying your body parts to your friends
2:08:45 PM Me: rather
2:08:50 PM Me: strangers who might become your friends
2:08:56 PM Me: or the world as a whole
2:09:15 PM This Gal: There's no point in actually having to admit on a MU anything other than what you want people to know about you if you want them to know anything at all
2:09:24 PM This Gal: I have no problem with [Person] identifying as a woman
2:09:26 PM This Gal: but
2:09:28 PM This Gal: she is a man
2:09:33 PM This Gal: she has male parts inside and out
2:09:36 PM This Gal: nothing wrong with that
2:09:40 PM This Gal: if I had a conversation with her
2:09:43 PM This Gal: I would call her "Her"
2:09:53 PM Me: you are really missing the whole concept of someone who is transgender. they aren't a man if they're a woman. they're a woman if they're a woman.
2:10:06 PM This Gal: biologically
2:10:18 PM Me: biology is not the same as gender identity
2:10:30 PM This Gal: woman and man is biology
2:10:34 PM This Gal: it's chromosomes
2:10:40 PM This Gal: it's science.
2:10:44 PM This Gal: that's it
2:10:53 PM Me: ah, so anyone with XY chromosomes is a man?
2:10:56 PM This Gal: There's no other difference really.
2:11:05 PM This Gal: biologically speaking, they are a man
2:11:06 PM This Gal: now
2:11:06 PM Me: I'm sure you can see that's a trap
2:11:12 PM This Gal: whether they identify with that
2:11:14 PM This Gal: is different.
2:11:14 PM Me: because not all women are XX and not all men are XY
2:11:38 PM Me: I don't feel like going down the niggly road that is, but
2:11:54 PM Me: here's the thing, you are really having a hard time separating gender identity from biology
2:13:09 PM Me: they might be on different points on their journey through transition, but it's nobody's business how far they are... so really, when someone says "I'm a woman" then I accept that whether or not they still have a penis. Because that's who they are and I am not going to argue with who they are.
2:14:11 PM Me: the attitude "you're not really a woman" leads to crazy high suicide rates. I hate that. I want people to live and be happy.
AAaaaand at that point, SHE stopped talking to me.
*throws things*
Click to viewAnd it began the conversation again.
2:56:40 PM This Gal: Thank you
2:56:44 PM This Gal: I'm not trying to be insensitive
2:57:01 PM Me: I think it's just you might not know, that's all.
2:57:13 PM This Gal: It's more like.. can we be okay with what we have physically even if we don't identify.
2:58:18 PM This Gal: Like okay, I watched a video a family who went through this with their daughter who from a really young age said she was a boy
2:59:14 PM This Gal: they decided after much counseling because they wanted to make sure their child would be raised in a safe environment to raise her as a boy.
2:59:26 PM Me: I watched that too I think
2:59:31 PM Me: it was wonderful
2:59:46 PM This Gal: but I wonder, can he - the boy - grow up to be proud of his anatomical parts?
3:00:10 PM Me: Why do you wonder that?
3:00:19 PM This Gal: Like I wonder if it would bring less shame?
3:00:32 PM This Gal: like honestly, I don't care what someone has between their legs.
3:00:39 PM Me: Are you sure?
3:00:41 PM This Gal: yeah
3:00:51 PM This Gal: if I raise my daughter to be a boy because that is how this child identified
3:00:55 PM This Gal: I would raise a son
3:01:07 PM This Gal: but there are things that come along with having 'girl' parts
3:01:25 PM This Gal: and I wouldn't want my child to be ashamed of that.
3:01:37 PM Me: You kinda seemed like you cared, when you were really shocked that [Person]'s player might have a penis. You immediately said "[Person]'s player is a DUDE?" when all along you thought she was a woman because that's how she acted and how she identified herself. Suddenly, what's between her legs made you say different things.
3:01:46 PM This Gal: No I was shocked over all the lying.
3:01:52 PM Me: See, there's the...
3:01:56 PM Me: there's the thing
3:01:58 PM Me: it's not /lying/.
3:02:00 PM This Gal: and I didn't actually read what [Person] said.
3:02:05 PM This Gal: Maybe she didn't lie
3:02:09 PM This Gal: but Vex lied
3:02:12 PM This Gal: about other shit
3:02:24 PM This Gal: and who the fuck knows if Vex is even whatever Vex says at this point.
3:02:31 PM Me: [Person] didn't, though. Who cares about Vex.
3:02:42 PM This Gal: so it was a shock to be like oh did she actually come out and say that?
3:02:56 PM This Gal: SO it's archaic to say OMg penis=dude
3:03:02 PM This Gal: that doesn't make me an asshole.
3:03:13 PM Me: I didn't say it did.
3:03:17 PM This Gal: it is classifying based on parts
3:03:18 PM This Gal: but
3:03:26 PM This Gal: I would never say oh well she's a man
3:03:30 PM This Gal: she's transgender
3:03:31 PM Me: I only said that it seemed like you cared.
3:03:33 PM This Gal: that's fine.
3:03:40 PM This Gal: No I don't I was just surprised.
3:03:48 PM This Gal: and the surprise was in that moment
3:03:51 PM This Gal: and then it was gone
3:04:05 PM Me: She identifies as a woman - so I go with what she identifies herself as. if she identified as a 'transwoman' I'd go with transwoman.
3:04:21 PM This Gal: Like oh, no shit I had no idea but that would not change anything I've ever said about her in the past.
3:04:29 PM This Gal: Like I've said [Person] is a dumb chick.
3:04:40 PM This Gal: She's still a dumb chick because of dumb chick shit she did on game.
3:04:59 PM This Gal: And I still call [Person] her
3:05:05 PM Me: yeah.
3:05:06 PM This Gal: so no it does not bother me whatsoever.
3:05:09 PM This Gal: It was a wow
3:05:11 PM This Gal: I had no idea
3:05:20 PM This Gal: and that's a testament of how much of a woman she is.
3:05:27 PM This Gal: she identifies and I agree
3:05:30 PM This Gal: she is a woman
3:05:37 PM Me: cool.
3:06:05 PM This Gal: I always look deeper into situations though because what if I have a child who comes to me at a young age and is like I'm not a girl I'm a boy
3:06:13 PM This Gal: I want to make sure I raise my child with love and support
3:06:15 PM This Gal: no matter what
3:06:21 PM This Gal: and that includes making sure they're healthy
3:07:17 PM This Gal: I want to know if people who do have opposite gender identity can be proud of their bodies.
3:07:38 PM This Gal: because that plays into a person's self-esteem and well being.
3:07:53 PM This Gal: until the person decides gender reassignment is for them
3:07:57 PM This Gal: they have to live with their bodies.
3:08:31 PM This Gal: And I would never want my child to feel ashamed of who they are.
3:08:59 PM Me: being proud of their bodies is a different concept than gender identity, though. and to be honest, most of the time, no, a transgendered person is not going to be proud of the parts of their body that contradict the way they feel about themselves
3:09:18 PM Me: often, those parts of their body are going to be a source of stress, anxiety, anger and shame
3:09:41 PM Me: because they are a constant reminder that they are different and wrong and they're markers that society will use to tell them "No, you are not who you say you are."
3:09:52 PM Me: look at you, you have breasts, you cannot be a man.
3:10:27 PM Me: maybe eventually, after they're well grown, much counseled and comfortable with themselves
3:10:31 PM Me: then maybe they can accept their body parts
3:10:38 PM Me: or maybe they can't and they go through reassignment surgery
3:11:23 PM Me: but because society insists on using body parts to define gender in addition to sex, those parts of them that contradict their identity will always be a source of cognitive dissonance
3:13:03 PM Me: and this may be a point where we got tripped up in communication
3:13:06 PM Me: sex and gander are different.
3:13:28 PM Me: (also sexuality and gender are different, and that often gets mixed up too)
3:14:07 PM Me: here's some more on that, though the video did okay when it explained that model that breaks down into four categories
3:14:07 PM Me: https://www.genderspectrum.org/understanding-gender
3:14:20 PM This Gal: okay
So tired. I was so angry I was crying. This shit is just not okay with me.