Can we come rocketing back to the part about me and my new syphilis? (btvs 4:8)

[cordelianne]

I had the misfortune of grabbing a second posting day at fall_for_sx on American Thanksgiving - the disadvantage of being Canadian and not knowing when American holidays are. *g* So, in case you were enjoying yummy food and family/friend time, and missed the final 2 chapters of my Spike/Xander story, It’s Not, I wanted to post the link to it today.

It’s Not

Comments

[crossoverman]

I'm having a hard time enjoying Veronica Mars this season for the same reasons you are. On top of the fact that we have at least one girl lying about being raped, Veronica as a character has been treated really badly this year. Logan's patronising attitude last week combined with his putting a tail on her... followed by Veronica getting drugged, not telling anyone, walking back to the car along, being assaulted and - miraculously - being saved by Logan. It's just altogether a bad message.

None of the "feminists" objected to Veronica's conclusion last week. I know it was a cliffhanger (god, those are getting old) but to even leave it a week with that suggestion - whether it turns out to be true or not - is appalling. If it turns out that these women have had anything to do with faking the rapes, I will drop the show. The general decline in quality of the show overall is frustrating enough, but when these kind of ill-advised stories are getting through, I won't bat an eyelid if it comes to letting the show go.

Veronica was saved by her dad in the first season finale and by Logan in the second season finale. The victims of both seasons were women. (Okay the second season was the bus crash, but the victim we knew best was Meg.)

I hate the fact the show is compared to Buffy because it's almost like the anti-Buffy now. I know people had problems with Buffy's feminist message in the final two seasons, but at least that show built up some good-will and a full-rounded character. Veronica has never been that good, has no good-will for me... and perpetuating this kind of thing makes me angry.

[cordelianne]

It's oddly reassuring to hear that other people are unhappy with VM for the same reasons - you know, it's better than being the only one feeling bitter while everyone else is happily enjoying the show! *g*

I totally agree with you about the bad messages. It's one thing to put Veronica in danger, and in the past she's normally been able to hold her own, but now it feels like she's being the victim. It's interesting that you'd bring up Logan's patronizing attitude - it's almost like the show is suggesting that he's right, Veronica should be protected.

but to even leave it a week with that suggestion - whether it turns out to be true or not - is appalling.
Yes! I couldn't agree more. I suspect it will turn out not to be true, but it doesn't matter. It's such a damaging way to end an episode.

When I heard the show had been picked up for the season (20 episodes or something), I wasn't excited or happy. I think I may join you in this: If it turns out that these women have had anything to do with faking the rapes, I will drop the show. I'm not sure if I can keep watching regardless, each week it's becoming more and more frustrating.

Yeah, Buffy always had an overall empowering message, something that VM has never had. I accepted that Veronica was more a noir and a darker show in many ways, but liked how strong and well-rounded Veronica's character was ... something that I feel has been lacking this season. And that's a very good point about the women always being victims, and about Veronica being saved - definitely a different show than Buffy in that regard too! Someone on my flist (I now can't remember who) said: Joss Whedon won't be calling it the best show on TV again.

[crossoverman]

Well, I'm sure a lot of people still are happily enjoying the show. I think the problem with fandoms in general is they are too forgiving, too easily. So unless Logan turns out to be the rapist, I don't think fandom in general will think twice. As long as Veronica solves the case.

Veronica had every right to ignore his phone call last episode, but from what I've seen it's Veronica backlash time. It's similar to the anti-Buffy backlash from Season 6 - but I think the main point of concern is that it's the female characters who cop this negativity. Male characters seem to have an easier time of it. It seems men are allowed to be moody, but if a woman does she's a bitch. And if she does it to a male character, she's basically unforgivable.

But in this case I don't care what the fandom thinks - it has always over-estimated the worth of the show. It was never Buffy, whether or not Joss called it the best show on TV.

I would love to know what Joss thinks of this season, but I think the problem there is that professional courtesy allows him to praise a show, but it's unlikely he would criticise a television series. At least while it's still on air.

The fact Veronica was renewed for 7 episodes (instead of 9) means to me that The CW doesn't have much faith in the series. It's the writing on the wall that this will be the last year. I almost wish it hadn't got those last seven - much easier to discontinue watching the show then.

Back to Buffy, because it's the benchmark and the cornerstone, I have a hard time remembering her being rescued *ever*. Please enlighten me if I've conveniently forgotten something. Sure, she wasn't always right, but she was never the damsel in distress. Certainly not at critical points in the narrative of the series.

[cordelianne]

Ah yes. I'd forgotten about the Logan-loving aspect of fandom (not that I hate his character but I'm not quite in that Logan squee category). Oh dear, I hadn't realized that there would be backlash about Veronica's actions ... which is silly of me not to realize that but I'm mostly out of touch with the fandom. *g* I think that what Logan did was wrong - it may have come from a good place but that doesn't make what he did right. And Veronica has every right to take some time to herself and not answer his phone call (I actually thought that was one of the better moments in the episode).

Male characters seem to have an easier time of it. It seems men are allowed to be moody, but if a woman does she's a bitch. And if she does it to a male character, she's basically unforgivable.
Yes! I totally agree! It's so frustrating to see people appreciating complex and very human male characters and then reacting negatively to women who are portrayed that way. I've noticed that on shows that have a female lead there's frequently significant backlash against the character - as you noted it was like that for Buffy, and I've also seen that for Grey's Anatomy too (the lead Meredith is very flawed and some people really hate her, but love the male characters who are also very flawed).

Oooh, it would be interesting to know what Joss thinks of the show! I'm sure you're right about professional courtesy. But perhaps his lack of comments about it are very telling!

On Buffy there were definitely instances when Buffy was helped by the male characters AND the female ones. The bigger deal ones would be bringing Buffy back from the dead - but in Prophecy Girl, for example, Buffy then goes on to kick the Master's ass and stop the apocalypse. In the big deal situations it was always Buffy who the did saving - like you said, certainly at the critical points she didn't need saving. I think the difference is that Buffy was always "the Slayer" and so if she was helped occasionally that was okay because these were people who were working with Buffy, and she was the big hero, the one we knew would ultimately save the day. Unlike Veronica who's just a high school girl, and has genuinely been the damsel in distress. In the past on VM, I felt that she was in a lot more control and less of a damsel, but it feels less like that now. This is making me nostalgic for a good Buffy episode now!! *g*

[crossoverman]

You make a good point about The Slayer versus plain old Veronica Mars: normal human girl. Buffy was made the victim in many circumstances, but few times did it feel like she needed a man on a white steed to save her from evil. I mean, yes, she needed help in Prophecy Girl - but *come on* the poor girl was dead :-)

I'm only tangentially near the fandom. But I have RL friends who love Logan and who kept watching the show because he was a fascinating character in the first season - and he was. But now his unreliability is being used too conveniently to prop up bad stories.

I'm under the impression that Joss thinks BSG is the best show on TV right now because he mentioned watching the webisodes in a recent interview.

[cordelianne]

I mean, yes, she needed help in Prophecy Girl - but *come on* the poor girl was dead :-)
heeee! Exactly! I love that the times I can think of when she really needed help was because she'd died!!

But now his unreliability is being used too conveniently to prop up bad stories.
Oh yes, that's been driving me crazy! I totally loved Logan in season one, such an interesting character. And this season? I've been totally bored by him.

I'm inclined to agree with Joss about BSG, it's making me really happy right now!