The Meta that ran away (Race relations inside of Fox River especially pertaining to Linc and Sucre)
Okay. This started out as a Meta on what I thought Linc's time in Gen-Pop was like and what I thought about Linc's beef with Sucre was about. But then it took a turn for me.
( Lincoln Burrows and the Arayan Brotherhood/Alliance of Purity (Formerly: LINC IN GEN-POP) )
( Lincoln Burrows and the Arayan Brotherhood/Alliance of Purity (Formerly: LINC IN GEN-POP) )
Hmm. That's a thought. Of course I can't get over the way that Linc acted around Abruzzi, it was very much... if Linc did have some involvement with the mob on the outside I think it wasn't with Abruzzi's mob. And completely off-track for a moment did we ever get clarified as to Abruzzi's position? Cause he seems to bounce between hitman and boss in my heard, which is ridiculous eitherway because the way the mob is handled in this show is just dumb as all fuck.
Back to point. The way Linc dislikes Abruzzi makes me think that if Linc is in any way connected to the mob (Which would not only explain how Michael's still around [to an extent] but would give an interesting spin to how Michael could afford the type of schooling it tkes to get his degrees and how he got into a firm that good as young as he is) then he's either got something to do with a rival family or just a different one. A rival family would cause physically violent tension though so I'm thinking amicable families if any.
And damn if Linc had some mob ties out there it would help explain the $90,000.
It's amuzing that Linc seems to dislike both Abruzzi and T-Bag about equally especially in the beginning (which makes me think that him hating on Sucre doesn't have to necessarily have much to do with race. Could be that Linc just generally hates anybody who is around Michael because he doesn't have a lot of control over the situation).
Yeah. I agree with you there, I think Linc's still incredibly protective of Michael and afraid that people (Even Sucre) will end up hurting him. Which brings to my mind this bit I have running around where people used to buddy up to Michael while they were On The Run just to get closer to Linc and that it hurt Michael when he would realize they didn't really have any interest in him.
As for Linc and Aryan ideology? There is this scene in one of the earlier episodes where he and Michael talk about Michael wanting to buy the pugnac from C-Note. And it's like:
Linc: It's not a good time to be trusting a black inmate, Michael.
Michale (grinning): Our relationship transcends race.
Linc: Nothing transcends race in here.
I cannot believe I forgot about that. Gah I really should not be happy about this but there's just so much potential for meta and stories out of this! Though it makes me wonder whether Linc used the wording "black inmate" because this is Fox or if it was because that's how he thought.
What I mean is that "black inmate" implies that Linc thinks of it as "Us" and "Them," he's not dehumanizing them or even using a derogatory word he just seems to be pointing out that C-Note is "One of them" and therefor an unknown factor.
If he used the term "black inmate" because it's Fox and they didn't want to use "Nigger" or "Porch-Monkey" or any of the other common derogatory names then that throws a whole different spin on things. Though given the lack of animosity bewtween the two of them I don't think this is the case.
This bit seems to make me think that Linc has a tinged view; he may not believe in "The Coming Race Wars" (Believe it or not that's what the AB think) or that whites are the "Supreme Race" but he may have a slightly lowered opinion of the non-white races.
(Continued)
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But the fact that Michael thinks he can screw over the mob the way he intends do, acting like he knows them and can predicts them? Suggests to me that maybe they had some familiarity with the mob growing up, even if it wasn't anything close.
Cause he seems to bounce between hitman and boss in my heard, which is ridiculous eitherway because the way the mob is handled in this show is just dumb as all fuck.
In the Behind The Walls special Peter S. said that ABruzzi is an enforcer, not a big light in the family. Seems to me that he probably started as a small muscle guy and maybe worked his ways up in the ranks a bit, even though he still has that killer/enforcer mentality, deep down. Maybe did somebody a big favor which is why they are letting him have PI. Plus there curretly isn't anybody of higher ranking enjailed in there.
Though it makes me wonder whether Linc used the wording "black inmate" because this is Fox or if it was because that's how he thought
Well they (well T-Bag) usually use "rughead" when they mean nigger. So if it was really intending to be derogatory he could have used that (though it's always possible that he would just never use that in front of Michael anyway).
he may have a slightly lowered opinion of the non-white races.
I think it's hard to tell. Mostly because Linc seems to have the "You stay away from us, we stay away from you" attitude towards pretty everybody who isn't his family circle.
I kinda see Linc as somebody who doesn't have any group loyalty at all. Like I'm sure he had friends he used to do crazy stuff with, but he didn't really care about them beyond a certain point. Along the lines of "Friends are for good times and then you move on and get different friends.". Like I see him running with the Aryans, but not really caring for them at all (in a sense that he would easily jump ship to0 a rival group if it was offered to him).
I don't really see Linc thinking too much about racial theory. I generally don't see him as the type who would spend any time thinking about any sorts of politics anyway.
I could it see as a passive thing. Like he might not be part of the ideology, but he wouldn't take offense or even notice if somebody was a racist. He would just nod and ignore it. He might be automatically tend more towards white people without much concious thought behind it though.
Another intriguing thought? One thing that has been pointed out quite a bit on TWOP, and one of the few things I see as an indication that Linc did has lasting periods of employed almost middle/working class life? The fact that Linc is well liked and gets along with all of the guards. Whether he is asking Bellick for cigarettes in Cell Test, guilting Louis into taking off his cuffs, being nice to the rookie CO and giving him advice or getting the watch stealing guard to let him make a phone call. Linc? Seems to work very well with the guards, like knowing stuff about their families and talking to them. Compare that how he interacts with the prionsers, it's almost like he despises the other prisoners and consideres the COs more his peers (might be a death row thing).
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Which makes me wish I had seen the episode. Have I mentioned how much I dislike holiday mail?
But the fact that Michael thinks he can screw over the mob the way he intends do, acting like he knows them and can predicts them? Suggests to me that maybe they had some familiarity with the mob growing up, even if it wasn't anything close.
Yeah, true. Either Mchael knows something about them from experience or he's being stupid and assuming. And I don't really see him letting himself be stupid about smething like that.
In the Behind The Walls special Peter S. said that ABruzzi is an enforcer, not a big light in the family. Seems to me that he probably started as a small muscle guy and maybe worked his ways up in the ranks a bit, even though he still has that killer/enforcer mentality, deep down. Maybe did somebody a big favor which is why they are letting him have PI. Plus there curretly isn't anybody of higher ranking enjailed in there.
Ah, okay then, that makes sense. If he's the highest rank in there then it would explain why he got the Good Stuff instead of someone else.
Well they (well T-Bag) usually use "rughead" when they mean nigger. So if it was really intending to be derogatory he could have used that (though it's always possible that he would just never use that in front of Michael anyway).
That is such a horrible attempt at... wow. "Spear-Chucker" is more common then that. But hey, I guess that's the point. And I think you're right that Linc would probably avoid using bad or derogatory words around Michael. Although the way Linc didn't seem to hesitate over the term (Black inmate) makes me think that maybe that's his primary term and he didn;t even have to think about censoring himself about it.
Mostly because Linc seems to have the "You stay away from us, we stay away from you" attitude towards pretty everybody who isn't his family circle.
True. He seems to be more of the "If your last name isn't Burrows or Scofield you don't matter" mindset. Which is understandable all things considered.
I kinda see Linc as somebody who doesn't have any group loyalty at all. Like I'm sure he had friends he used to do crazy stuff with, but he didn't really care about them beyond a certain point. [...] Like I see him running with the Aryans, but not really caring for them at all (in a sense that he would easily jump ship to0 a rival group if it was offered to him).
Which of course would keep him on the bottom rungs trust-wise, which would be no problem with him because he doesn't really care much one way or the other for them, they're just Others.
I could it see as a passive thing. Like he might not be part of the ideology, but he wouldn't take offense or even notice if somebody was a racist. He would just nod and ignore it. He might be automatically tend more towards white people without much concious thought behind it though.
Yeah, he does seem the kind of guy who'd be kinda like "You think what you want and I'll think what I want and whatever."
Another intriguing thought? One thing that has been pointed out quite a bit on TWOP, and one of the few things I see as an indication that Linc did has lasting periods of employed almost middle/working class life? The fact that Linc is well liked and gets along with all of the guards. [...] Compare that how he interacts with the prionsers, it's almost like he despises the other prisoners and consideres the COs more his peers (might be a death row thing).
See, I noticed the guard thing too but I just took that as meaning he'd been there a while and been good. If Linc'd been there for a period of time he'd get to know the guards. And if he was a good prisoner (Not snitch good or anything like that), the type who didn't start problems back in Gen-Pop and the kind who was well-known as not really running loyal with anyone then the guards might like him a bit more then the guys like T-Bag who make their jobs shit every few days.
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Yeah, I can see it being a death row thing. That these are the people he sees everyday so he better get along with them. And the inmates on the outside don't matter because he doesn't see as muc of them.
Still he comes across as respecting the guards and respecting their jobs. At least compared to the thinly veiled disgust he seems to have for most of the other prisoners. And after all it could be argued that they too could be of importance to him, just like the guards, so maybe it would pay being nice to them. But naw.
Louis is THE coolest guard. I squeed like crazy when he moved through the picture for just a second in the InFanity interview (which should be on the DVD I sent you, and word about the stupid holiday mail).
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Yeah, I can see it being a death row thing. That these are the people he sees everyday so he better get along with them. And the inmates on the outside don't matter because he doesn't see as muc of them.
Oh yeah, it's usually a good idea to at least get along with the people you see daily.
Still he comes across as respecting the guards and respecting their jobs. At least compared to the thinly veiled disgust he seems to have for most of the other prisoners. And after all it could be argued that they too could be of importance to him, just like the guards, so maybe it would pay being nice to them. But naw.
I think that's because Linc knows he's not in the right. Unlike the majority of the guys in there he knows that all the crap things he's done weren't right. I think he admires the guards a bit because he knows what they risk to keep the Bad Guys on the inside. And he knows that at one point or another they've all probably had the option to take the wrong road but they prevailed for one reason or another.
Louis is THE coolest guard. I squeed like crazy when he moved through the picture for just a second in the InFanity interview (which should be on the DVD I sent you, and word about the stupid holiday mail).
Dude, he needs fic. Badly. And I need the mail to get here. Also badly.
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And I need Louis icons, badly! Must bug smidgy06 about them.
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Dude. Get me some caps and I'll make you some nice bases to bribe with. :D
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I actually almost wrote one for him a while ago, but then I got distracted by Michael/Lincoln. And I'm pretty sure that I wrote a couple bits of it down somewhere and now I have no idea where. Boo. He's definitely one of the characters I'll mourn if/when they actually do break out and we don't see much the prison any more - which is something I really like about this show, the fact that there are so many random periphery characters who hang around and don't really have a huge impact on the show overall, but are interesting and awesome nonetheless.
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Oh oh! You must hunt and find because really? So very much awesome.
He's definitely one of the characters I'll mourn if/when they actually do break out and we don't see much the prison any more - which is something I really like about this show, the fact that there are so many random periphery characters who hang around and don't really have a huge impact on the show overall, but are interesting and awesome nonetheless.
Oh man, I know. There are just too many people who pop in for a frame or two and then run out to be wicked-awesome. Like Maytag, who really didn't last long at all.
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I'm beginning to think now about going back to that 'cause I'm in the middle of two that are kicking my ass at the moment.
Like Maytag, who really didn't last long at all.
Yes! Like, he was barely there for an episode (two maybe? can't remember whether that big race fight took place in the first or second episode), but I loved the potential for backstory they gave him, with the relationship between him and T-Bag and the really brief look we got of the picture under his mattress while Michael was searching the cell. And yet I still haven't gotten around to reading all of the Maytag fic that I hear is so good. *sigh*
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Doitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoit!
Yes! Like, he was barely there for an episode (two maybe? can't remember whether that big race fight took place in the first or second episode), but I loved the potential for backstory they gave him, with the relationship between him and T-Bag and the really brief look we got of the picture under his mattress while Michael was searching the cell. And yet I still haven't gotten around to reading all of the Maytag fic that I hear is so good. *sigh*
Exactly. It's like in Smallville fandom Whitney Fordman was there for only the first season and even then not a whole lot but he has a surprising amount of fic out there on him.
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