Comments | clari_clyde: i admire your loyalty; i only wish he felt the same way.

clari_clyde

i admire your loyalty; i only wish he felt the same way.

Apr 15, 2013 21:16

Fannishly, something happened to me in the last six months - I fell hard for Supernatural and especially for Destiel.

Now, I always liked it but it’s been a slow build from S4 when Kripke was showrunner and Castiel appeared as an angel with a haughty attitude towards humans. And the show and this ship remained on my backburner where it already was ( Read more... )

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butterfly April 20 2013, 17:08:02 UTC

Even though I understood that Dean had a lot of internalized self-hate, I almost rage-quit the show in S4.

I quit after one of their what-is-consent episodes -- "Wishful Thinking" (which was an Edlund episode) -- I think because it felt like we were supposed to pity the dude that he wasn't able to continue to mind-control the girl into a relationship anymore (after having done so for a month) and it was a real 'flames on the side of my face' moment. How is Joss Whedon the only man in television who can acknowledge that shit like that is rape? Oh, I have a whole rageful post about it, actually: http://butterfly.livejournal.com/1247678.html

I still haven't rewatched any of the S3/4 episodes that really pissed me off back in the day.

I wonder when Gamble started gaining influence because she wasn’t officially the showrunner until S6, IIRC. But yes, I really noticed the change in tone towards women when Charlie didn’t die.

We know that Gamble is the person who put her foot down later in S4 and said, "um, if Sam sleeps with Ruby while she's in a living person's body, that is not consent and we're making our hero a rapist" and I really A+ appreciate her for doing that and always will. And maybe it made a difference in the future? IDK. Are there any other 'the writers didn't notice it was rape' moments after that? ("Time for a Wedding" seemed aware of the non-con elements to me).

And the way the show treated "wished into being in love" in "Trial and Error" seemed about 100% more aware of the woman actually being a human being than "Wishful Thinking" did.

Right now, I think Thompson and Dabb are the strongest with women and Carver and Edlund are the strongest with Destiel.

I've been really pleased with Dabb's solo writing. Loflin was totally holding him back from achieving his potential.

Thompson was a great add. He's contributed a lot in only two years.

Edlund is great with male-male relationships. Definitely not their strongest writer on women, though. He's written some of my favorite episodes but also the three episodes that made me most ragey on the way women were treated ("Simon Said", "Malleus Maleficarum" and "Wishful Thinking").

Carver is pretty even-handed -- he's fairly good with female characters, good with Sam & Dean, good with Destiel.

LOLz, no. Every story is going to be a conversation between the creators and the consumers but that conversation has to be based on text and not wishful thinking. Just because a fan has an opinion doesn’t mean it’s right.

It’s like saying if the fans want to interpret Hermione Granger as someone who believed that the elves wanted to be slaves and therefore slavery is okay-and that’s an actual trufax thing I saw in HP fandom-then that’s all okay for the fans to do so. Except, no, that’s not what JK Rowling meant at all.

I think Glass was trying to be diplomatic to all parts of the fanbase except that in doing so, he was also throwing his fellow writers under the bus. :-x

Yeah, it was very head-desk-y.

Plus, one of the points re: queer readings in television is that they aren't treated equally to male-female subtext. If a m/f couple had the same interactions that Destiel have had, no one in media would be calling their fans delusional.

clari_clyde April 20 2013, 17:37:53 UTC

butterfly April 20 2013, 17:58:19 UTC

OMG, I didn’t know Gamble did that with Sam and Ruby. I don’t like the hurt/comfort tone she brought to the show as showrunner because it systematically killed off everyone the boys interacted with, but she’s written some of my fave episodes and know that about her just made her cooler.

Yep, it really made me have mad respect for her, especially since it's even harder to be the voice of concern in a room full of men who apparently haven't even thought of it as an issue.

I don't think she was the best showrunner in the world but I do miss her as a writer and a voice on the show.

Many people on Tumblr point out that Tintin is Moffat’s least problematic work because there are no women or POCs for him to screw up and I hope that Edlund’s episodes aren’t light on women because they’re his Tintin.

Ha, that's possible. I haven't watched anything of Moffat's since RTD's run on DW ended, so I can't speak to him anymore. Thankfully. I'm currently debating on whether or not I'll watch DW's 50th.

As for interpretation, I just can’t see how Destiel is considered subtext except with an extremely narrow heteronormative worldview; I’m at the point where I have low opinions of people who think Destiel is only subtext. But then, I am disappointed with Misha’s “just because we’re not talking about it doesn’t mean it’s not happening.” It’s happening, great! Now how about you talk about it and hit those people with blinders on with a clue-by-four?

Yep, basically all of that. Everything about Dean/Cas this season has been strongly coded as a romance, but because the actual romance part is still unspoken, we still get the jerks who dismiss Dean/Cas shippers as delusional.

clari_clyde April 20 2013, 21:14:40 UTC

A friend showed me some episodes of DW and I’ve thought about it but then, last summer, I saw Sherlock-all six episodes. >_< I don’t think I’ve ever had so much rage for an entire series before. There’s racism in “The Blind Banker” and sexism in “Scandal in Belgravia” and thanks to the show’s toying around with psychiatric and medical diagnoses, ableism in every single episode. So, I aim for a low-Moffat diet for my entertainment consumption.

That said, I still do want to watch Tintin if only because of Jamie Bell’s voice acting which he does in his own native accent.

originalpuck April 23 2013, 06:02:44 UTC

Just wanted to chime in here and agree with the rage at Sherlock. After watching it, I have no idea how Moffat has so many fans who thinks he walks on water. Yes, I've seen a few seasons of Doctor Who, but it definitely doesn't make up for the horror that was his treatment of pretty damn near EVERYONE in Sherlock.

Though, again, I'm with you on Tintin. It's been in my Netflix queue forever, because I want to see it for JBells and his delicious voice, but the rest doesn't really appeal to me. Such a tough choice.

clari_clyde April 23 2013, 06:29:01 UTC

I see the appeal of Sherlock; it’s beautifully produced and has intricately plotted plots. But a lot of the show’s fans are like Moffat in that they see characters not as people but as plot devices, especially the characters who are written solely to be plot devices to be hated. And even Watson gets the short end as his only purpose is to, in an ableist way, prove that Sherlock is god and reinforce that with his constant fawning over Sherlock.

See, DW is the kind of thing that should interest me. But between Star Trek and DW, from everything I’ve heard about Gene Roddenberry vs what I’ve heard about Moffat? And all the bitching that I see on Tumblr about how DW is problematic and creepy in its reveal of Moffat’s fetishes? All that makes me prioritize Star Trek higher while putting DW at the absolute bottom of my list.

JBells vs Moffat. What a horrible decision to make.

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