I watch splatter movies, I read about all sorts of diseases and horrible ways to die and suffer, in that sense I'm pretty tough. But everyone has something that turns their stomach; for me it's self-inflicting wounds. Bludgery, fine; if I see someone cutting herself, even in simulated television, I feel like fainting or throwing up or both. Oh, well, vampires are actually different - I only feel a twinge then; because I know the scars will fade and there's no way that would kill or really harm her. Still.
Here, I think Mal SHOULD go to the meetings; should know other Ribboners; because despite everything her position is very difficult. She fights and kills and makes others bleed, and she regularly puts her mouth on human skin. That's like an alcoholic regularly diving in spirits and trying not to swallow any.
And since this is more than the memory of a different life and a different pleasure, tied up as it is with a sense of worthlessness - does some part of her feel worthless still because her family thinks her so, even though she chose this further indignation (becoming a Ribboner)? - since this is more, she need some way to work through that.
As to the new style, it works and it's easy to follow, though I am bothered by the sentences ending without a full stop. If you mean the sentences to continue in the next italic bit then that next italic bit should start with a small letter rather than capital, and if you only want to get a sense of unfinishedness then I'd use -- or something like that - it looks like a repeated typo, now.
Re: Mal, meetings, and her sense of worthlessness:
Yes. She does still feel worthless. Still hates herself a fair bit. (I don't know if VA meetings would help with that or not... If they're anything like AA meetings then probably not. What leads you to a particular choice isn't as important as making that choice, and making it again every night).
I think part of why she doesn't go is... pride? A sense of "Dammit, I can do this without you. I mannaged to exist with *no-one* for years. I can at least do *this* on my own." But it's combined with a need to prove her own strength (remember her father? How he hated weakness?) and, thus, her own worth. Almost like a hair-shirt if you will. (A bit like Sam keeping that bottle of Bear-Hugger's in his desk drawer, although possibly more-so).
I think that... aside from being completely in love with her, Mal needs to be close to Polly's skin *because* Polly is human. To remind her, every minute, that human=person (see: "Training").
But, yeah. You raise a good point about her needing to be able to work through this stuff, to talk it out with someone who has even half a clue of what it might be like. That Count (or former-Count) in Thud might actually be useful for that. Or Otto. I think she'd trust Otto, at least a little bit, after the talk they had back in Plotz.
I think perhaps a follow-up where this gets discussed (between Mal and Polly) would be a good one. Perhaps while they're in Ankh Morpork. I think there will be a catalyst to that discussion there anyway.
Re: Sentense structure. I'll see what I can do to fix it up. :-)
Let's see, Mal breathes out, do vampires do that? Also, what does she mean by "pretended not to know"? Also you now have a , instead of a . after "crease". But yes, it looks much nicer with the full stops.
Knowing why you made a choice and having the support of others to convince you it was right - that ought to help. If she's not a "group kind of person", she'd still need someone who is a vampire and a ribboner to talk to, sometimes at least, I'd think. It wouldn't hurt, she wouldn't have to do it all alone, all those struggles Polly can't share.
There have to be more Ribboners in Borogravia, anyway, even if it was mostly a traditionalist vampire area. Who did she go to for the change, anyway? Where was that group hall?
In my ficverse, yes, vampires breathe. (That way they can inhale scents, or gasp at a touch, sigh at the irony of a situation, whisper or shout or sob, or have their breath quicken perceptably at the thought of a kiss or a calamity).
What I meant by "pretended not to know" was: This loose-knit collection of lesbian girls are living in a culture that *really* hates the idea of lesbians. Fake-Lesbians-for-Male-Titilation/Bate is okay. But Real Lesbians (tm) are just wrong-wrong-wrong. (Gay men, on the other hand, aren't such a problem... It's a very male-o-centric culture). As such, even though they know each-other by sight and name and probably family lineage (not to mention individual eroginous zones) they are pretending to be on nothing more than nodding terms with each-other so that their families (or their society as a whole) don't get suspicious. Of course, many of these liasons (as mentioned in some other fic) started out as... random girls following Mal into secluded rooms and saying, effectively, "I'm vulnerable in the same way that you are. Let me touch you, so that I can show you that you're not alone. So that I can assure myself that I'm not alone either." She learned their identities during those joinings, but had to maintain the illusion of unfamiliarity for the sake of safety.
The group-hall... I don't know where it was. Not in the Capital, and not in Munz (which I'm assuming is the second-largest 'city' (town) in Borogravia). Half of me figures it must be in the third-largest town, but most of me suspects that one of the old families... the currant inhabitant went black-ribbon (possibly while in Uberwald) and converted his castle into a group-hall. I think the castle itself may technically be in Solvania now (independance, etc), though it would have been on Borogravian terrain at the time that Mal made the switch. In the large(-ish) vampire community of Borogravia, there are only about a dozen (maybe fewer) who have made the switch -- although it's starting to catch on. :-)
Perhaps she'll have to find Ivan, the middle-aged, bespectacled vampire man who opened the door to her cell and told her she'd made it through.
The only thing is... They'd understand about the effects of being a soldier, of being around blood, and causing bleeding, and having to deal with that context every day. (She is so strong, but sometimes I think she's more brittle than she allows herself to think about). But I don't think they'd be that understanding about her human beloved. As you say, it's like swimming in alcohol and trying not to swallow any. They might say that's too much temptation, tell her to leave the human girl (who will only die anyway): "As inspiring as your relationship with the human is, it's also dangerous. I don't think it's healthy for you to be with her. I think, perhaps, you should stop seeing her. She'll only tempt you. It will get harder, the longer you're with her. I would hate for you to hurt someone you care about. The League can not condone this relationship. Don't you understand we just want to help you?"
Which, of course, ignores the fact that Polly is Mal's support system. For all the other crap that came out of her awful family life and that... gives her nightmares, and makes her want to hide inside herself, that makes her hate herself so utterly... Without Polly, she'd just be that much closer to cracking.
Anyway. So... Yes, she'd be able to talk to her chapter of the League of Temperance. I'm not sure she'd be able to talk about *everything* though.
That being said... She might be able to talk to Sally von Humpending(?), while they're in Ankh Morpork. She did, after all, have a crush on a human/dwarf. So she'd get it, at least a little bit (even if she is barely out of child-hood).
Will fix the comma. :-)
Timeline = Between "Let Love Reign" and "Working Girls" (I think).
My assumption re: vampires breathing has been that they only draw breath when they need it - to speak, for example. But why not?
And I understand now about the pretending-not-to-know. Somehow I read that as pretending to them to really not know them, which seemed er, strange. But yes.
How many vampires ARE there in Borogravia? It's vampire country, to be sure, but hunter vampires can't be that numerous; human stock takes a few decades to renew. Er. A little longer in Borogravia, one should imagine.
Ooooo fic with Sally and Mal would be marvelous. Uberwald is right next to Borogravia, they're both young, they're both Ribboners, they both have short hair (except when I care to argue about it), it's entirely conceivable they met before Mal joined the army and Sally answered the siren call of Morporkia.
Uberwald is also huge. And Sally is from Bonk, which is only a few days travel-by-carriage from Lancre.
Borogravia is potentially two weeks of travel away from Bonk. :-)
That being said, yes. Short hair --> Although I always -- ha, how the tables have turned -- pictured Sally with a short pony-tail (very perky, but more 'practical' than 'cheerleader', if you will). And a man's brown tweed over-coat.
There is a pretty wide age difference though... Mal would be about 70 years older than Sally. Not that this is a big amount by vampire standards (and, hey, I've got friends old enough to be my mother, so really). And Mal and Otto got along... moderatly well... despite a 350-year age difference... so... yes. That could work. :-)
Hehe. Sally could take Mal out (note: not 'Out') for a specialty coffee. Polly could get a little worried about not being able to meet all of Mal's needs (like she hasn't been worrying about this since meeting Clarrise, years earlier), ther could be moderately-drunken vampire conversations...
I think this'll work. :-)
Re: Vampire population of Borogravia: Not much more than a hundred, I don't think. Two hundred at the most. (Though some of the ones who participate in the Borogravian circles actually live in Kordova, Solvania, and Zlobenia -- there's a certain amount of cultural-sharing going on between those countries both for humans and vampires. :-)
Unfortunately: I've just changed some stuff <*sigh*> ;-) in the fic (added, really), and need to know if it works. I think it could still use some tweaking, to be honest. :-)
Also: Side note about the time-line: "An Unexpected Guest" happens between "Save Me" and "I Miss You". :-)
Here, I think Mal SHOULD go to the meetings; should know other Ribboners; because despite everything her position is very difficult. She fights and kills and makes others bleed, and she regularly puts her mouth on human skin. That's like an alcoholic regularly diving in spirits and trying not to swallow any.
And since this is more than the memory of a different life and a different pleasure, tied up as it is with a sense of worthlessness - does some part of her feel worthless still because her family thinks her so, even though she chose this further indignation (becoming a Ribboner)? - since this is more, she need some way to work through that.
As to the new style, it works and it's easy to follow, though I am bothered by the sentences ending without a full stop. If you mean the sentences to continue in the next italic bit then that next italic bit should start with a small letter rather than capital, and if you only want to get a sense of unfinishedness then I'd use -- or something like that - it looks like a repeated typo, now.
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I kinda figured. ;-)
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Yes.
She does still feel worthless. Still hates herself a fair bit. (I don't know if VA meetings would help with that or not... If they're anything like AA meetings then probably not. What leads you to a particular choice isn't as important as making that choice, and making it again every night).
I think part of why she doesn't go is... pride? A sense of "Dammit, I can do this without you. I mannaged to exist with *no-one* for years. I can at least do *this* on my own." But it's combined with a need to prove her own strength (remember her father? How he hated weakness?) and, thus, her own worth. Almost like a hair-shirt if you will. (A bit like Sam keeping that bottle of Bear-Hugger's in his desk drawer, although possibly more-so).
I think that... aside from being completely in love with her, Mal needs to be close to Polly's skin *because* Polly is human. To remind her, every minute, that human=person (see: "Training").
But, yeah. You raise a good point about her needing to be able to work through this stuff, to talk it out with someone who has even half a clue of what it might be like.
That Count (or former-Count) in Thud might actually be useful for that. Or Otto. I think she'd trust Otto, at least a little bit, after the talk they had back in Plotz.
I think perhaps a follow-up where this gets discussed (between Mal and Polly) would be a good one.
Perhaps while they're in Ankh Morpork. I think there will be a catalyst to that discussion there anyway.
Re: Sentense structure. I'll see what I can do to fix it up. :-)
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Knowing why you made a choice and having the support of others to convince you it was right - that ought to help. If she's not a "group kind of person", she'd still need someone who is a vampire and a ribboner to talk to, sometimes at least, I'd think. It wouldn't hurt, she wouldn't have to do it all alone, all those struggles Polly can't share.
There have to be more Ribboners in Borogravia, anyway, even if it was mostly a traditionalist vampire area. Who did she go to for the change, anyway? Where was that group hall?
Also, where in the timeline should I put this?
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What I meant by "pretended not to know" was: This loose-knit collection of lesbian girls are living in a culture that *really* hates the idea of lesbians. Fake-Lesbians-for-Male-Titilation/Bate is okay. But Real Lesbians (tm) are just wrong-wrong-wrong. (Gay men, on the other hand, aren't such a problem... It's a very male-o-centric culture). As such, even though they know each-other by sight and name and probably family lineage (not to mention individual eroginous zones) they are pretending to be on nothing more than nodding terms with each-other so that their families (or their society as a whole) don't get suspicious.
Of course, many of these liasons (as mentioned in some other fic) started out as... random girls following Mal into secluded rooms and saying, effectively, "I'm vulnerable in the same way that you are. Let me touch you, so that I can show you that you're not alone. So that I can assure myself that I'm not alone either."
She learned their identities during those joinings, but had to maintain the illusion of unfamiliarity for the sake of safety.
The group-hall... I don't know where it was. Not in the Capital, and not in Munz (which I'm assuming is the second-largest 'city' (town) in Borogravia).
Half of me figures it must be in the third-largest town, but most of me suspects that one of the old families... the currant inhabitant went black-ribbon (possibly while in Uberwald) and converted his castle into a group-hall. I think the castle itself may technically be in Solvania now (independance, etc), though it would have been on Borogravian terrain at the time that Mal made the switch.
In the large(-ish) vampire community of Borogravia, there are only about a dozen (maybe fewer) who have made the switch -- although it's starting to catch on. :-)
Perhaps she'll have to find Ivan, the middle-aged, bespectacled vampire man who opened the door to her cell and told her she'd made it through.
The only thing is... They'd understand about the effects of being a soldier, of being around blood, and causing bleeding, and having to deal with that context every day. (She is so strong, but sometimes I think she's more brittle than she allows herself to think about). But I don't think they'd be that understanding about her human beloved. As you say, it's like swimming in alcohol and trying not to swallow any. They might say that's too much temptation, tell her to leave the human girl (who will only die anyway): "As inspiring as your relationship with the human is, it's also dangerous. I don't think it's healthy for you to be with her. I think, perhaps, you should stop seeing her. She'll only tempt you. It will get harder, the longer you're with her. I would hate for you to hurt someone you care about. The League can not condone this relationship. Don't you understand we just want to help you?"
Which, of course, ignores the fact that Polly is Mal's support system. For all the other crap that came out of her awful family life and that... gives her nightmares, and makes her want to hide inside herself, that makes her hate herself so utterly... Without Polly, she'd just be that much closer to cracking.
Anyway.
So... Yes, she'd be able to talk to her chapter of the League of Temperance. I'm not sure she'd be able to talk about *everything* though.
That being said... She might be able to talk to Sally von Humpending(?), while they're in Ankh Morpork. She did, after all, have a crush on a human/dwarf. So she'd get it, at least a little bit (even if she is barely out of child-hood).
Will fix the comma. :-)
Timeline = Between "Let Love Reign" and "Working Girls" (I think).
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And I understand now about the pretending-not-to-know. Somehow I read that as pretending to them to really not know them, which seemed er, strange. But yes.
How many vampires ARE there in Borogravia? It's vampire country, to be sure, but hunter vampires can't be that numerous; human stock takes a few decades to renew. Er. A little longer in Borogravia, one should imagine.
Ooooo fic with Sally and Mal would be marvelous. Uberwald is right next to Borogravia, they're both young, they're both Ribboners, they both have short hair (except when I care to argue about it), it's entirely conceivable they met before Mal joined the army and Sally answered the siren call of Morporkia.
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Borogravia is potentially two weeks of travel away from Bonk. :-)
That being said, yes. Short hair --> Although I always -- ha, how the tables have turned -- pictured Sally with a short pony-tail (very perky, but more 'practical' than 'cheerleader', if you will). And a man's brown tweed over-coat.
There is a pretty wide age difference though... Mal would be about 70 years older than Sally. Not that this is a big amount by vampire standards (and, hey, I've got friends old enough to be my mother, so really). And Mal and Otto got along... moderatly well... despite a 350-year age difference... so... yes. That could work. :-)
Hehe. Sally could take Mal out (note: not 'Out') for a specialty coffee. Polly could get a little worried about not being able to meet all of Mal's needs (like she hasn't been worrying about this since meeting Clarrise, years earlier), ther could be moderately-drunken vampire conversations...
I think this'll work. :-)
Re: Vampire population of Borogravia: Not much more than a hundred, I don't think. Two hundred at the most. (Though some of the ones who participate in the Borogravian circles actually live in Kordova, Solvania, and Zlobenia -- there's a certain amount of cultural-sharing going on between those countries both for humans and vampires. :-)
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But Sally's very short hair is def. canon. Very very short hair. Yep.
Mal's supposed to be young too, so in human years I'd imagine their age difference was more like four years - Sally's sixteen to Mal's twenty.
Drunken. Vampire. Conversations. :D I can't wait!
I think a hundred is hugely many, considering. But I don't know...
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That was quick work. :-)
Unfortunately: I've just changed some stuff <*sigh*> ;-) in the fic (added, really), and need to know if it works. I think it could still use some tweaking, to be honest. :-)
Also: Side note about the time-line: "An Unexpected Guest" happens between "Save Me" and "I Miss You". :-)
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Thanks for the note - will fix.
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Thanks for fixing. :-)
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