Hi! I know that you deleted your previous post. I'm sorry if my comment asking you to clarify your response to #8 made you uncomfortable, but unfortunately, even WITH your explanation, it's still reading as extremely insensitive to me, particularly "usual African American people".
I also grew up in an economically unfortunate and culturally diverse neighborhood. I understand that there are a lot of people who don't understand AAVE, but it is in fact a dialect and not a sign of ignorance or under education, and you really should read up on it, particularly relating to the case of Martin Luther King Junior Elementary School Children et al., v. Ann Arbor School District, which you may find very enlightening on the subject.
Despite your intent, I am offended by the way you've phrased things. Even your explanation is coming off extremely insensitive and ignorant on the subjects of racism and classicism. I am willing to believe that you are in no way doing this maliciously, and that it is not your intent to appear this way, but
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I never said it was a sign of ignorance or under education. The survey was about speech so I was describing it the best way that I knew how... sorry if you got offended but once again that wasn't my intention.
"The ones who grow up in the ghetto and don't speak properly" comes off as an aggressive implication of ignorance, with 'ghetto' and 'properly' being the trigger words in this instance. Then you go on to say that not all black people have 'poor speech' and that not all of them 'don't know how to talk'.
What I am saying to you is that the mentality that AAVE is wrong is racist. AAVE is not poor speech and it doesn't mean people aren't speaking correctly. It is a dialect. It is illegal to discriminate against people for speaking in AAVE in America, just like it's illegal to discriminate against people for having a Japanese accent or a Southern accent.
You said 'usual African American people' That implies that you think that most people who are African American talk that way. You are also implying that most live in a ghetto which is far from the truth. I know what you're trying to say, but the way you're saying it is highly offensive.
That's also not answering the question. All you're saying is that she was brought up to speak in a certain way. Just using that seems racist to an extent.
Try explaining why her family decided she should speak 'properly'. Did something happen in her childhood? Did her parents think by training her in speech, they would be giving her a chance at a better life?
IF her parents were trying to train her to have better speech to have a better life wouldn't that be considered racist as well? Then you'd just say people who don't speak "properly" can still have a better life. I can't win. I'm in no way racist. Nothing happened in her childhood it's just where she lived. Her parents did think that talking with proper would get her a better life, would give her better jobs, etc. I never said most of them live in the ghetto and I'm fully aware that not all of them talk that way.
If her parents were trying to train her- It could be considered racist, but that's something to explore with the character. If you studied race relations you might see why they saw the need to do so.
You may not have said things in those exact words, but the way you said it leads one to believe that is how you think.
I don't mean to dogpile you in here, but I'm another person who thinks the phrasing warrants some examination. To preface, I am a person of color; I do speak in in a semi-distinctive way, in real life, that is generally specific to people of my race from a certain area of the United States.
Phrases like "usual African American people" are going to be inflammatory, as a rule, especially where a post is already discussing language, voice, and what these things can express. Honestly, I find the phrasing just as classist-sounding as racist: the implication reads as being that the average Black person is poor, and again that poor people don't know how to speak properly. This is a stereotype. It isn't reality.
This isn't attacking you personally, because I do think I can see what you mean by the statements, but there are very specific problems with how it was worded.
I got it the first time it was said. Everyone said "I get that you're not trying to be racist but that's what you sound like." I get that. I said it wasn't my intention. But yet you guys keep treating me like I'm a bad person because I worded things in a way that let everyone assume all sorts of things that I didn't even say or wasn't trying to say.
I didn't join this community to be bashed and to be treated like I was a criminal. I came here to have fun, get away from the everyday things that I have to do and just escape but this brought me more stress than relaxation all because everyone wants to educate me on racism.
Jumping in here despite you not responding to my comment to say that no one is doing anything even remotely close to treating you like a bad person or bashed or treating you like a criminal. Are you serious? Three people (four counting greenthumbchick) are being extremely calm, polite, and respectful by explaining to you why the things you are saying are racist in text if not intent. YOU are the one confirming that their intent is racist by refusing to accept what people are telling you.
Fact: You DO need to be educated on racism. If that is stressing you out, then that is an even bigger indicator that the problem is with YOU and not the people here, who have been extremely forgiving and patient with you thus far despite your repeated inflammatory remarks and blatant refusal to accept that you are in the wrong and learn from this experience thanks to these said patient people who are, obviously, very willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.
Do not pretend people are attacking you. That is not what is happening.
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I also grew up in an economically unfortunate and culturally diverse neighborhood. I understand that there are a lot of people who don't understand AAVE, but it is in fact a dialect and not a sign of ignorance or under education, and you really should read up on it, particularly relating to the case of Martin Luther King Junior Elementary School Children et al., v. Ann Arbor School District, which you may find very enlightening on the subject.
Despite your intent, I am offended by the way you've phrased things. Even your explanation is coming off extremely insensitive and ignorant on the subjects of racism and classicism. I am willing to believe that you are in no way doing this maliciously, and that it is not your intent to appear this way, but ( ... )
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Reply
What I am saying to you is that the mentality that AAVE is wrong is racist. AAVE is not poor speech and it doesn't mean people aren't speaking correctly. It is a dialect. It is illegal to discriminate against people for speaking in AAVE in America, just like it's illegal to discriminate against people for having a Japanese accent or a Southern accent.
If you don't know what I mean, here is the wiki article on African American Vernacular English. Please read it ( ... )
Reply
You said 'usual African American people' That implies that you think that most people who are African American talk that way. You are also implying that most live in a ghetto which is far from the truth. I know what you're trying to say, but the way you're saying it is highly offensive.
That's also not answering the question. All you're saying is that she was brought up to speak in a certain way. Just using that seems racist to an extent.
Try explaining why her family decided she should speak 'properly'. Did something happen in her childhood? Did her parents think by training her in speech, they would be giving her a chance at a better life?
Reply
Reply
You may not have said things in those exact words, but the way you said it leads one to believe that is how you think.
Reply
Phrases like "usual African American people" are going to be inflammatory, as a rule, especially where a post is already discussing language, voice, and what these things can express. Honestly, I find the phrasing just as classist-sounding as racist: the implication reads as being that the average Black person is poor, and again that poor people don't know how to speak properly. This is a stereotype. It isn't reality.
This isn't attacking you personally, because I do think I can see what you mean by the statements, but there are very specific problems with how it was worded.
Reply
Reply
I don't think anyone here is trying to do anything other than point out where your language and phrasing might be taken a certain way.
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I didn't join this community to be bashed and to be treated like I was a criminal. I came here to have fun, get away from the everyday things that I have to do and just escape but this brought me more stress than relaxation all because everyone wants to educate me on racism.
Reply
Fact: You DO need to be educated on racism. If that is stressing you out, then that is an even bigger indicator that the problem is with YOU and not the people here, who have been extremely forgiving and patient with you thus far despite your repeated inflammatory remarks and blatant refusal to accept that you are in the wrong and learn from this experience thanks to these said patient people who are, obviously, very willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.
Do not pretend people are attacking you. That is not what is happening.
Reply
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