It asserts that when the chazzan (cantor, prayer leader) faced the ark (and thus had his back to the congregation), prayer -- both his and the congregation's -- could be more heart-felt, private, and perhaps spontaneous. However, when the chazzan started facing the congregation, everyone got self-conscious.
Fascinating parallels to priests turning around to face the congregation after Vatican II. We Protestants are generally not very intentional (or thoughtful, sadly) about precisely how things are done-- but my current pastors kneel at the communion rail, facing the altar, to lead prayer, rather than leading it from the pulpit facing the people. It's a change I appreciate.
We just had a 'church growth' expert in, and some of the things that came out in discussion were similar to what you shared here-- particularly that we under-serve young singles, and retirees.
Fascinating parallels to priests turning around to face the congregation after Vatican II.
It's that recent? I hadn't realized.
Once upon a time I went to a "re-creation" mass -- that is, a local Episcopalian priest (who was friendly with the SCA) agreed to perform a 14th-century vespers service (more specifics forgotten) in as historically-accurate a way as he could, as an educational exercise. The two things that struck me were the chant (I knew about chant academically but had not heard it in all its proper context) and his physical placement. He had his back to us the entire time, facing the altar; I initially thought that it was impresonal and elevating the priest in status, which may well be true, but he pointed out that this was also enpowering for the congregation, and having thought about it more now, I can see that. Obviously it was weird for us modern folks, but it wouldn't have been weird in context.
In actuality, he was facing the Tabernacle along with everyone else to place the emphasis on God.
Something similar happens in Jewish prayer. There are places during the service where everyone faces the ark, including the people on the bima. It is not (now) customary to conduct the entire service that way, though, at lease from what I've seen. I don't know if it ever was.
As an aside to raising a child with two religions: We are raising our son to be exclusively Jewish. Considering that he is the only Jewish kid in his daycare and his elementary school, and one of four in the whole city, he has a surprisingly strong Jewish identity. My mother is Baptist, and he once sat her down and said "Grandma, you're the only person in my family who isn't Jewish. What's wrong with you?" She will occasionally slip and take him to church with her. I don't like it and I try to avoid having her babysit on Sundays for that reason, but occasionally it can't be helped. I was worried that it would confuse him, but it turns out that he schools 'em while he's there. He is actually not allowed to come back to Sunday School at my mom's church because he made a big point of saying that Jesus was just a guy and the Devil isn't real.
We are raising our son to be exclusively Jewish. Considering that he is the only Jewish kid in his daycare and his elementary school, and one of four in the whole city, he has a surprisingly strong Jewish identity.
Yashar koach to all of you! It sounds like a challenging environment.
I was worried that it would confuse him, but it turns out that he schools 'em while he's there.
Good for him! :-) That's pretty good for a six-year-old.
I assume that your mother means well and, not being immersed in Judaism herself, just doesn't always know what is or isn't going to fly. It can take time.
I assume that most couples in this situation have the best of intentions and don't realize how challenging it is to raise a kid in a house with two religions. And for most couples, one person is more strongly committed religiously than the other is; after all, if you have, say, a very-strongly-committed Catholic and a very-strongly-committed Jew, what are the odds that they would actually have married each other? Interfaith marriage results when religion is negotiable, and thinking abstractly about future kids can be rather different from confronting the issues around actual kids
( ... )
Most rabbis won't participate in interfaith weddings; I assume the same is true for most priests. Catholic priests will perform a service for someone who is marrying a non-Catholic, but the couple is usually required to participate in the Catholic pre-marriage preparation class/counseling
( ... )
facing which waychaos_wranglerAugust 1 2004, 20:55:19 UTC
However, when the chazzan started facing the congregation, everyone got self-conscious.
Background note: I was raised "Orthodox" (although rather unorthodox in some ways), and my husband's family goes to a Conservative synagogue (and I worked in one for a while), so those are the types of services I'm most familiar with.
The idea of the chazan facing the congregation is new to me, so I'm curious when/where this started. The closest thing I've seen is the torah reader facing the congregation (in a Conservative synagogue), but for the prayer parts of the service the chazan was facing the ark along with everyone else.
Re: facing which waycellioAugust 2 2004, 05:28:42 UTC
The idea of the chazan facing the congregation is new to me, so I'm curious when/where this started.
I don't know when/where it started. It certainly seems to be the norm in Reform, but two of the three local Conservative synagogues do it too, except during the Amidah, Barchu, and Aleinu, where everyone faces the ark. That's what I've seen in most Orthodox services I've visited too, though I don't have a lot of experience there, particularly with the farther-right Orthodox.
Apparently the trend had become common at least in the Reform movement by 1962, because that's when this article was written.
The closest thing I've seen is the torah reader facing the congregation (in a Conservative synagogue),
Wow. Every torah reading I've seen, including those few Orthodox, has been with the desk facing the congregation. (I've never been to a Sephardi synagogue, where I understand they put the reading desk in the middle of the room, facing front.)
but for the prayer parts of the service the chazan was facing the ark along with everyone
( ... )
Re: facing which waychaos_wranglerAugust 2 2004, 11:45:20 UTC
It certainly seems to be the norm in Reform, but two of the three local Conservative synagogues do it too, except during the Amidah, Barchu, and Aleinu, where everyone faces the ark. That's what I've seen in most Orthodox services I've visited too, though I don't have a lot of experience there, particularly with the farther-right Orthodox.
Huh. Most of my experience is with "modern Orthodox" and slightly more to the right. (Much further to the right is likely to have problems with my learning gemara, wearing pants, and/or following my family's tradition and not covering my head/hair all the time even though I'm married.)
I've put an entry in my LJ asking what others have seen.
(I've never been to a Sephardi synagogue, where I understand they put the reading desk in the middle of the room, facing front.)I've seen this in at least one Sephardi synagogue and various Ashkenazi synagogues too. I've also seen the chazan put in the middle of the room, facing front, which would mean he's facing some of the congregation, but they're
( ... )
Re: facing which waycellioAugust 2 2004, 19:52:50 UTC
Huh. Most of my experience is with "modern Orthodox" and slightly more to the right.
As something of an outsider to orthodoxy, I can't always correctly identify the substrains. I have been to multiple congregations that called themselves modern orthodox, to one that was definitely farther to the right (I don't know if "black hat" applies, though there were many in attendance), one Lubavich service where the mechitzah was so high and opaque that I couldn't actually see what they were doing on the men's side, and a couple ambiguous ones. Much of this was a few years back, though, so my memories may be fuzzy. I know the torah reader in at least one of the MO congregations faced the congregation, for what little that's worth. (I've been there a few times.)
I look forward to hearing the results of your survey. Most of my experience is concentrated in one city.
Yup, including the brachot at the beginning (is that what you mean by "nisim b'chol yom"?), korbanot, and p'sukei d'zimra.Yeah, that's the part I meant. (I've heard the term
( ... )
Most people think it says "a child of a Jewish father and non-Jewish mother is Jewish (period, stop)". What it actually says is this:
The Central Conference of American Rabbis declares that the child of one Jewish parent is under the presumption of Jewish descent. This presumption of the Jewish status of the offspring of any mixed marriage is to be established through appropriate and timely public and formal acts of identification with the Jewish faith and people. The performance of these mitzvot serves to commit those who participate in them, both parent and child, to Jewish life.
Depending on circumstances, mitzvot leading toward a positive and exclusive Jewish identity will include entry into the covenant, acquisition of a Hebrew name, Torah study, bar/bat mitzvah, and kabbalat torah (confirmation). For those beyond childhood claiming Jewish identity, other public acts or declarations may be added or substituted after consultation with their rabbi.So according to this, we have a requirement of exclusivity, a requirement on
( ... )
Comments 17
Fascinating parallels to priests turning around to face the congregation after Vatican II. We Protestants are generally not very intentional (or thoughtful, sadly) about precisely how things are done-- but my current pastors kneel at the communion rail, facing the altar, to lead prayer, rather than leading it from the pulpit facing the people. It's a change I appreciate.
We just had a 'church growth' expert in, and some of the things that came out in discussion were similar to what you shared here-- particularly that we under-serve young singles, and retirees.
Reply
It's that recent? I hadn't realized.
Once upon a time I went to a "re-creation" mass -- that is, a local Episcopalian priest (who was friendly with the SCA) agreed to perform a 14th-century vespers service (more specifics forgotten) in as historically-accurate a way as he could, as an educational exercise. The two things that struck me were the chant (I knew about chant academically but had not heard it in all its proper context) and his physical placement. He had his back to us the entire time, facing the altar; I initially thought that it was impresonal and elevating the priest in status, which may well be true, but he pointed out that this was also enpowering for the congregation, and having thought about it more now, I can see that. Obviously it was weird for us modern folks, but it wouldn't have been weird in context.
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
Something similar happens in Jewish prayer. There are places during the service where everyone faces the ark, including the people on the bima. It is not (now) customary to conduct the entire service that way, though, at lease from what I've seen. I don't know if it ever was.
Reply
We are raising our son to be exclusively Jewish. Considering that he is the only Jewish kid in his daycare and his elementary school, and one of four in the whole city, he has a surprisingly strong Jewish identity.
My mother is Baptist, and he once sat her down and said "Grandma, you're the only person in my family who isn't Jewish. What's wrong with you?"
She will occasionally slip and take him to church with her. I don't like it and I try to avoid having her babysit on Sundays for that reason, but occasionally it can't be helped. I was worried that it would confuse him, but it turns out that he schools 'em while he's there. He is actually not allowed to come back to Sunday School at my mom's church because he made a big point of saying that Jesus was just a guy and the Devil isn't real.
Reply
Yashar koach to all of you! It sounds like a challenging environment.
I was worried that it would confuse him, but it turns out that he schools 'em while he's there.
Good for him! :-) That's pretty good for a six-year-old.
I assume that your mother means well and, not being immersed in Judaism herself, just doesn't always know what is or isn't going to fly. It can take time.
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
Reply
Reply
Background note: I was raised "Orthodox" (although rather unorthodox in some ways), and my husband's family goes to a Conservative synagogue (and I worked in one for a while), so those are the types of services I'm most familiar with.
The idea of the chazan facing the congregation is new to me, so I'm curious when/where this started. The closest thing I've seen is the torah reader facing the congregation (in a Conservative synagogue), but for the prayer parts of the service the chazan was facing the ark along with everyone else.
Reply
I don't know when/where it started. It certainly seems to be the norm in Reform, but two of the three local Conservative synagogues do it too, except during the Amidah, Barchu, and Aleinu, where everyone faces the ark. That's what I've seen in most Orthodox services I've visited too, though I don't have a lot of experience there, particularly with the farther-right Orthodox.
Apparently the trend had become common at least in the Reform movement by 1962, because that's when this article was written.
The closest thing I've seen is the torah reader facing the congregation (in a Conservative synagogue),
Wow. Every torah reading I've seen, including those few Orthodox, has been with the desk facing the congregation. (I've never been to a Sephardi synagogue, where I understand they put the reading desk in the middle of the room, facing front.)
but for the prayer parts of the service the chazan was facing the ark along with everyone ( ... )
Reply
Huh. Most of my experience is with "modern Orthodox" and slightly more to the right. (Much further to the right is likely to have problems with my learning gemara, wearing pants, and/or following my family's tradition and not covering my head/hair all the time even though I'm married.)
I've put an entry in my LJ asking what others have seen.
(I've never been to a Sephardi synagogue, where I understand they put the reading desk in the middle of the room, facing front.)I've seen this in at least one Sephardi synagogue and various Ashkenazi synagogues too. I've also seen the chazan put in the middle of the room, facing front, which would mean he's facing some of the congregation, but they're ( ... )
Reply
As something of an outsider to orthodoxy, I can't always correctly identify the substrains. I have been to multiple congregations that called themselves modern orthodox, to one that was definitely farther to the right (I don't know if "black hat" applies, though there were many in attendance), one Lubavich service where the mechitzah was so high and opaque that I couldn't actually see what they were doing on the men's side, and a couple ambiguous ones. Much of this was a few years back, though, so my memories may be fuzzy. I know the torah reader in at least one of the MO congregations faced the congregation, for what little that's worth. (I've been there a few times.)
I look forward to hearing the results of your survey. Most of my experience is concentrated in one city.
Yup, including the brachot at the beginning (is that what you mean by "nisim b'chol yom"?), korbanot, and p'sukei d'zimra.Yeah, that's the part I meant. (I've heard the term ( ... )
Reply
So what does it actually say and what do most people think it says?
Reply
The Central Conference of American Rabbis declares that the child of one Jewish parent is under the presumption of Jewish descent. This presumption of the Jewish status of the offspring of any mixed marriage is to be established through appropriate and timely public and formal acts of identification with the Jewish faith and people. The performance of these mitzvot serves to commit those who participate in them, both parent and child, to Jewish life.
Depending on circumstances, mitzvot leading toward a positive and exclusive Jewish identity will include entry into the covenant, acquisition of a Hebrew name, Torah study, bar/bat mitzvah, and kabbalat torah (confirmation). For those beyond childhood claiming Jewish identity, other public acts or declarations may be added or substituted after consultation with their rabbi.So according to this, we have a requirement of exclusivity, a requirement on ( ... )
Reply
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