Canon Corner
It is I, chick without a user pic, here to talk about BTR Canon: that is, showverse facts that have been stated or implied on the show, in interviews, in promotional pieces or from similar official sources.
I’m an oldster who admits to loving canon. Not because it necessarily matters, but because I’m always curious to know everything. When writing or reading fic, I like to know what is considered fact, what has developed into head canon or fanon, what is honest and brilliant speculation, and what is just people ignoring established fact so they can write what they want even if it is completely OOC. When fever_play asked if I wanted to contribute a discussion, my research geek came out.
Finding canon is like mounting a frame-by-frame scavenger hunt, and often for no reward. Because all it takes is one lazily researched line, one scriptwriting incontinuity, one quip that contradicts what came before, to blow canon veritas out of the water. And frankly, that can be as much fun as finding it. So join me, would you?
It really in no way impacts the show, or most fic, but I find myself really wanting to know the age order of the boys. Maybe because so many fic writers have selected an age order. Some based on Real Life; that is, Carlos, Logan, James, Kendall. Some with Carlos as the youngest. Or Logan. Or Kendall as the oldest. James just seems to float around in mid-order. Again, as they are all essentially the same age, it doesn’t matter. But it makes me think. I’ve never come across any pre-show publicity that listed age order - has anyone else? If not, then it’s up to us to figure it out.
Is Logan the oldest?
Based on conversation in Big Time Audition, one could assume Logan is the oldest member of the four, because only Logan has his learner’s permit.
(CANON Kendall: Logan has his learner’s permit! Season One, Episode One, Big Time Audition)
No one else pipes up that they have one as well, or that they are capable of driving to the audition, so we take it as intended fact that only Logan has one.
Possession of a permit does not automatically cement Logan as the oldest. It is entirely possible that the other boys are of age, but only Logan’s parents find him trustworthy enough to let him try. Not too certain I’d be willing to put Carlos behind the wheel. I could see him constantly losing the privilege due to some stunt or another. James may be too pretty to drive. Or too preoccupied, or, in pop-star fashion, too willing to let someone else chauffeur him. Kendall’s mom could be too busy to have taken him. Although the way the Knight house runs, it seems they would want to get Kendall driving as soon as possible so he can take on more responsibility.
And what is their age, anyway? Given that all four boys are emphatically established as being 16 in the episode Big Time Mansion, which takes place less than three months after they leave Minnesota for LA, we can safely assume they are all 15 or 16 in Big Time Audition.
(CANON Kendall: I’m not too young. I’m sixteen! Logan: Together we’re 64. Season One, Episode Six, Big Time Mansion)
(CANON Kendall: I can’t believe we’ve been here three months. Season One, Episode Nine, Big Time Demos)
SIDEBAR: Don’t confuse television writers with researchers
It doesn’t appear that the writers knew this or paid attention to it, but in Minnesota you can obtain a learner’s permit when you are 15. Going on the evidence that only Logan has a permit because only he is age-eligible, that would open the possibility that the rest of the boys are actually 14 in Big Time Audition, which is completely contradicted in canon as, less than three months later, they are all 16.
So we can safely toss out the idea that the writers were going by actual Minnesota law, or California law, and safely speculate they had 16 fixed in their heads as permit age.
Nearly the entire season passes without any additional mention of ages or driving, until the second-to-last episode, Big Time Video. And look, driving!Logan to the rescue again, still with his permit. Presumably it is now a California permit. And Logan only needs an adult in the car for TWO more months!! Yay! So ponder this: Does this indicate that Logan will be 17 in two months, adding to the “Logan is the oldest” argument? Or that he will have had his Cali permit for the required six months and therefore can get his license as long as he is 16? Who knows? Evidently not the writers. What we do know is that Logan is apparently still the only one eligible to drive.
(CANON Logan: Hey, in two more months I’ll have my full license! Season One Episode Seventeen, Big Time Video.)
Once again, no mention of anyone else having a permit or nearing driving privileges. You’d think a sweet car like the BTR mobile, which has just been purchased for them, would bring out the driver in these competitive teenage boys, no? Alas, no.
(And will we ever see the BTR mobile again? I miss it.)
Conclusion: All canon really tells us is that all the boys are 16 as of the episode Big Time Mansion. We can speculate that Logan is the oldest based on his being the first (only) one learning to drive. But speculation seems dangerous in the “it sounds good, we’ll figure that out later” world of BTR scriptwriting.
Do you have additional canon points to add to this? I’m sure I’ve missed something.
If you write fic, in what age order, if any, do you put the boys?
Is there any age order you’ve read that really irks you? Why? Is there an age order you like to see?
Katie’s age changes in season two, from ten (Big Time Fever) to eleven (I believe Green Time Rush, can someone confirm?). Can we infer the boys have aged from 16 to 17? And possibly to 18 in season three? Any other references to age?
Should we have more canon discussion in the future, or am I too Logan?
Edited to add: We do see Kendall as a competent driver, albeit one pressed into service, in Big Time Movie. Does this indicate that he has experience, perhaps because he has obtained his license? Does it indicate that he is 17? Does it crack anyone else up that the drivers side is on the left instead of the right?
I’m an oldster who admits to loving canon. Not because it necessarily matters, but because I’m always curious to know everything. When writing or reading fic, I like to know what is considered fact, what has developed into head canon or fanon, what is honest and brilliant speculation, and what is just people ignoring established fact so they can write what they want even if it is completely OOC. When fever_play asked if I wanted to contribute a discussion, my research geek came out.
Finding canon is like mounting a frame-by-frame scavenger hunt, and often for no reward. Because all it takes is one lazily researched line, one scriptwriting incontinuity, one quip that contradicts what came before, to blow canon veritas out of the water. And frankly, that can be as much fun as finding it. So join me, would you?
It really in no way impacts the show, or most fic, but I find myself really wanting to know the age order of the boys. Maybe because so many fic writers have selected an age order. Some based on Real Life; that is, Carlos, Logan, James, Kendall. Some with Carlos as the youngest. Or Logan. Or Kendall as the oldest. James just seems to float around in mid-order. Again, as they are all essentially the same age, it doesn’t matter. But it makes me think. I’ve never come across any pre-show publicity that listed age order - has anyone else? If not, then it’s up to us to figure it out.
Is Logan the oldest?
Based on conversation in Big Time Audition, one could assume Logan is the oldest member of the four, because only Logan has his learner’s permit.
(CANON Kendall: Logan has his learner’s permit! Season One, Episode One, Big Time Audition)
No one else pipes up that they have one as well, or that they are capable of driving to the audition, so we take it as intended fact that only Logan has one.
Possession of a permit does not automatically cement Logan as the oldest. It is entirely possible that the other boys are of age, but only Logan’s parents find him trustworthy enough to let him try. Not too certain I’d be willing to put Carlos behind the wheel. I could see him constantly losing the privilege due to some stunt or another. James may be too pretty to drive. Or too preoccupied, or, in pop-star fashion, too willing to let someone else chauffeur him. Kendall’s mom could be too busy to have taken him. Although the way the Knight house runs, it seems they would want to get Kendall driving as soon as possible so he can take on more responsibility.
And what is their age, anyway? Given that all four boys are emphatically established as being 16 in the episode Big Time Mansion, which takes place less than three months after they leave Minnesota for LA, we can safely assume they are all 15 or 16 in Big Time Audition.
(CANON Kendall: I’m not too young. I’m sixteen! Logan: Together we’re 64. Season One, Episode Six, Big Time Mansion)
(CANON Kendall: I can’t believe we’ve been here three months. Season One, Episode Nine, Big Time Demos)
SIDEBAR: Don’t confuse television writers with researchers
It doesn’t appear that the writers knew this or paid attention to it, but in Minnesota you can obtain a learner’s permit when you are 15. Going on the evidence that only Logan has a permit because only he is age-eligible, that would open the possibility that the rest of the boys are actually 14 in Big Time Audition, which is completely contradicted in canon as, less than three months later, they are all 16.
So we can safely toss out the idea that the writers were going by actual Minnesota law, or California law, and safely speculate they had 16 fixed in their heads as permit age.
Nearly the entire season passes without any additional mention of ages or driving, until the second-to-last episode, Big Time Video. And look, driving!Logan to the rescue again, still with his permit. Presumably it is now a California permit. And Logan only needs an adult in the car for TWO more months!! Yay! So ponder this: Does this indicate that Logan will be 17 in two months, adding to the “Logan is the oldest” argument? Or that he will have had his Cali permit for the required six months and therefore can get his license as long as he is 16? Who knows? Evidently not the writers. What we do know is that Logan is apparently still the only one eligible to drive.
(CANON Logan: Hey, in two more months I’ll have my full license! Season One Episode Seventeen, Big Time Video.)
Once again, no mention of anyone else having a permit or nearing driving privileges. You’d think a sweet car like the BTR mobile, which has just been purchased for them, would bring out the driver in these competitive teenage boys, no? Alas, no.
(And will we ever see the BTR mobile again? I miss it.)
Conclusion: All canon really tells us is that all the boys are 16 as of the episode Big Time Mansion. We can speculate that Logan is the oldest based on his being the first (only) one learning to drive. But speculation seems dangerous in the “it sounds good, we’ll figure that out later” world of BTR scriptwriting.
Do you have additional canon points to add to this? I’m sure I’ve missed something.
If you write fic, in what age order, if any, do you put the boys?
Is there any age order you’ve read that really irks you? Why? Is there an age order you like to see?
Katie’s age changes in season two, from ten (Big Time Fever) to eleven (I believe Green Time Rush, can someone confirm?). Can we infer the boys have aged from 16 to 17? And possibly to 18 in season three? Any other references to age?
Should we have more canon discussion in the future, or am I too Logan?
Edited to add: We do see Kendall as a competent driver, albeit one pressed into service, in Big Time Movie. Does this indicate that he has experience, perhaps because he has obtained his license? Does it indicate that he is 17? Does it crack anyone else up that the drivers side is on the left instead of the right?