Lap-dancing = degradation

[bronnyelsp]

Here a "comment is free" article about how the government is finally trying to do something about the current, ludicrous, situation whereby lap-dancing clubs can operate with the same license as a pub or a cafe on the argument that they are simpy "clubs" and not (cough)... not (hack, hairball, I'm trying to get the words out here)... not part of

Comments

[mothwing]

Too tired to be really coherent right now, but who the fuck thinks that lap dancing is not part of the sex industry...? The fact that there seems to be a need for this article shocks me. Seriously, normalisation of lap dance? In what kind of fucked up world is lap dancing considered anything other than repulsive and skeevy? This whole thing is so incredibly sickening, especially that pointing out that the sex industry as it is is exploitative and demeaning is apparently something that only "extremist feminists" bring up rather than incredibly old news that should be common knowledge by now.

That comment is truly stellar, though. Too bad it gets lot in the rubbish the others spammed the section with.

[sashajwolf]

I agree with the point, but I know a lot of POC aren't happy to be used as weaponry in debates about sexism like that.

[eyelid]

I think it's important to be respectful when making comparisons, but I do think they can be useful to make a point.

[bronnyelsp]

I'm not sure if I agree that it's using POC as weapons. It's pointing out that a situation which depends on the degradation of one set of people for the entertainment of another is unacceptable, and currently we recognise that more readily when it is racist rather than sexist.

There are other situations in which I think sexism is more readily recognised than racism.

[eyelid]

I don't know. bluedragonflye used to strip and she found it to be a positive experience.

I think there is a significant difference between the first and second scenarios. The one is clearly all about white dominance. The second isn't necessarily about male dominance; it can just be about sex. In other words, a lot of people want sex, porn, etc. for its own sake, because it feels good, not just to degrade women. Conversely, the "proposed" club is specifically designed just to degrade people of color.

I don't think that strip clubs are inherently degrading to women any more than sex is generally inherently degrading to women.

[bronnyelsp]

Yes, I suppose I went to an extreme in vilifying the sex industry. I don't think it's inherently negative anymore than sex is inherently negative -- but I think that the sex industry is, and sex can be, negative, and in our society, the sex industry plays a negative role, the way it is currently set up. The sex industry in our current society contributes to the exploitation and degradation of women, even if individual women are able to enter into it and avoid that (and frankly, I think those individual women are rare). If we had equality, we could be sex positive without those ramifications. But I think currently, the sex industry is largely about male dominance, and it is degrading to women as a result.

[eyelid]

I guess that I'm kind of torn. I agree that the sex industry is often, if not always, degrading of women. And frankly it creeps me out, even though I have friends who have been in it and have had positive experiences.

But on the other hand, I am very uncomfortable with outlawing or legally-hindering-for-the-purpose-of-hindering specific types of work/activities simply because they are often degrading of women. For one thing I think it drives the sex industry underground, which makes it even more risky and degrading for women.

[bronnyelsp]

There's a difference between outlawing something and requiring a different type of license for it. Frankly, even if we had equality, and even if it was degrading, I wouldn't want to see lap-dancing clubs wherever there could be a coffee shop, or even a pub. I wouldn't want them in or near residential neighbourhoods, because I think families have the right to impart sexual values to children by themselves, without having to go out of their way to avoid sex establishments.

I'm in favour of legalising prostitution btw -- but I'm also very strongly in favour of some legislation which was recently mooted (I must look it up and see what happened with it) to crack down on the trafficking of women, and on men who have sex with trafficked women.

I think probably we pretty much agree on this topic, we're just coming at it from different angles.

[miafedup]

Sahib's sounds kinda fun!

Okay, not really. Amazing.