OMG, how long did it take them to get across the state line?! I find myself thinking the same thing - just how far away did this guy live? Bobby had time to check up on two hunters in the time it took the boys to get to this Jed's house.
I guess it just depends on the state. Bobby already crossed the state line to visit Olivia - we dont know what state she's in but its 210 miles x 380 miles and it has huge states on either side - not small states like Rhode Island or New York. Now Bobby probably lives in Lawerence (though the official site says Sioux but there is no Sioux county South Dakota) since that is what is on his plates and it is also an in joke because Lawerence has a town named Deadwood. Anyway if he is in Sioux county North Dakota he is on the South Dakota border but what he is doing living on reservation land makes me curious. If on the other hand he is in Lawerence then both Wyoming and Montana his closest neighboring states. So assuming they started out around 1pm (after Sam went for lunch) the probably got to Olivia's any where before 7pm just as long as it was light from there to Jed's which may have been farther away - I think it makes more sense than all the hunters clustered in a small area.
Re: Part 1llywela13September 30 2008, 08:51:15 UTC
Geography! Cool.
I love that Bobby gave Dean and Sam the long trip, and took the shorter hauls for himself. *G*
I think it makes more sense than all the hunters clustered in a small area. Definitely. That was what always bugged me about the Roadhouse, the notion that this one little place would be brimming with hunters all the time. It flew in the face of everything we'd ever learned about hunters up till that point. They should be a thinly scattered network.
it makes more sense than all the hunters clustered in a small area.
*nods* Or maybe there really are a lot of hunters and we (Sam and Dean) aren't aware of how ubiquitous they are? Wouldn't it be interesting if the war breaks out (S5) and all of the sudden previously incognito hunters come popping out of the woodwork?
Although I have to say I was surprised by the hunter density in this episode, esp. because we've been lead to believe since S1 Sam and Dean are essentially the exception to the rule and hunters are loners who are far and few between.
I have to say I was surprised by the hunter density in this episode, esp. because we've been lead to believe since S1 Sam and Dean are essentially the exception to the rule and hunters are loners who are far and few between. Hmmmm. Except that since S2 show has been pulling more and more hunters out of the woodwork, shocking both Sam'n'Dean and us with their numbers. I mean...it was always my biggest gripe with the Roadhouse. I had no trouble with the concept of a saloon run by a hunter/hunter's widow/someone in the know. I had no trouble with hunters using it as a kind of contact point. But I did object to the suggestion that every person in that bar at any given moment was a hunter, and they never had any other customers. Because...I feel very strongly that however many hunters are out there, they should be scattered far and wide. A network. Not a community gathered semi-permanently in one spot.
Except that since S2 show has been pulling more and more hunters out of the woodwork, shocking both Sam'n'Dean and us with their numbers.
Yes, one could argue that there are more hunters than Sam and Dean know of (and thus the viewers as we see the verse through their character filters) because John actively keep them out of the loop and isolated from the larger hunting community for a variety of reasons. And as Sam and Dean learn more about hunting (they were quite young in the pilot and even though Dean had been working solo gigs he was only 26) they and the viewers discover just how much was kept from them. So I guess what I'm saying is that perhaps this opening of the world is intentional and the viewer's assumptions about fundamental "truths" are meant to be turned upside down. Kripke is totally screwing with us!!!!!! Ack.
I did object to the suggestion that every person in that bar at any given moment was a hunter, and they never had any other customers.
Sometimes I'm orbiting my own little fandom planet, but I never explicitly got the impression that The Roadhouse was only for hunters. If it was I'm not sure it would be able to say in business unless Jo and Ellen were independently wealthy (harhar). Also, I like the idea of a subversive subculture intermingling with the norm, having hunters right under everyone's noses instead of existing separately just feels cooler.
A network. Not a community gathered semi-permanently in one spot.
I agree with you. I like the loner aspect of a hunter's life ... it makes it seem that much more desperate and weirdly heroic (very typical of the heroes in westerns). Also having whole hunting communities (communes) would vilify John more being that if he knew about them then he purposely avoided them, making his son's lives all that more fragmented and unstable for his own selfish reasons.
I never explicitly got the impression that The Roadhouse was only for hunters. If it was I'm not sure it would be able to say in business unless Jo and Ellen were independently wealthy Well, quite! That was always my gripe. But I did get the impression that we were supposed to believe the vast majority of the clientele were hunters of some kind, and it always bugged me. I would give examples, but the thought of it exhausts me! LOL
I much prefer to think of hunters scattered far and wide - a subversive little subculture, like you say.
*nods* Or maybe there really are a lot of hunters and we (Sam and Dean) aren't aware of how ubiquitous they are? Wouldn't it be interesting if the war breaks out (S5) and all of the sudden previously incognito hunters come popping out of the woodwork?
Could be but still if you just assume that we are looking at 3 states South Dakota (77,116 sq miles), Wyoming (97,816 sq miles) and Montana (147,165 sq miles) then the hunter Density is 1 hunter per 53,682 sq miles or an area the size of New York, Illinois is only slightly bigger. That's probably enough to keep a hunter busy especially in an area where there is historical precedent of atrocities, native spirits, new ghosts and not to mention if the gates to hell are in a Wyoming cemetary - what else is there? Where was I goingg with this - darned if I remember - oh yeah I know now - I guess my point was that the density really wasn't that high
Although I have to say I was surprised by the hunter density in this episode, esp. because we've been lead to believe since S1 Sam and Dean are essentially the exception to the rule and hunters are loners who are far and few between.
I think that Sam and Dean are the exception but not because they are togehter but because they know so few people. I think that their Dad's paranoia and temperment kept them isolated from other hunters. Normally I suspect that hunters may not choose to hunt together often. I mean sure you have a partner watching your back but that partner can also be a liability if he is bitten by a were or turned by a vamp or put under mind control etc. Has to be hell on the hunter who has to kill a buddy. But I bet that they interact more than John let his boys see; probably exchanging information, protective items etc After all Sam and Dean never knew about the road house until the call on John's phone where Ellen said he didn't have to do things alone. Then to both Ellen/Jo, the Campbells and the couple from Mag 7 represent hunting families. And even Crazy *ss Gordon had his buddies that he could reach out to, close enough that they visited him in Jail. travel. Its seems a lot is based on how they got into hunting and the level of psychlogical damage they took.
Density is 1 hunter per 53,682 sq miles or an area the size of New York
OMG, derived Show facts! :D You know, I bet this entire thread regarding hunter families, hunter density, hunter communication, hunter communities could be spun into an awesome, meaty meta of epic awesomeness.
I think that Sam and Dean are the exception but not because they are togehter but because they know so few people.
An important distinction to make. Also, I think that perhaps the fact the boys have each other may play a small part in why they don't know more people. Sam and Dean can rely on each other and don't necessarily have to reach out for help frequently (exception is Bobby) because they have their own "hunter community of two".
I think that their Dad's paranoia and temperment kept them isolated from other hunters.
It breaks my heart to say this (esp. after seeing young!John in 4x03), but I think so, too.
I actually like the idea of hunters having a tight network if they choose to use it. Having so few people involved makes it even more of a necessity to have a close-knit (albeit spread out geographically) group to support and keep tabs on each other, esp. because hunters adopt an "us versus them" mentality. I bet they follow the group dynamic/intimacy rule: the smaller the group generally the members are more intimate, the larger the group the associations are more causal.
OMG, how long did it take them to get across the state line?!
I find myself thinking the same thing - just how far away did this guy live? Bobby had time to check up on two hunters in the time it took the boys to get to this Jed's house.
I guess it just depends on the state. Bobby already crossed the state line to visit Olivia - we dont know what state she's in but its 210 miles x 380 miles and it has huge states on either side - not small states like Rhode Island or New York. Now Bobby probably lives in Lawerence (though the official site says Sioux but there is no Sioux county South Dakota) since that is what is on his plates and it is also an in joke because Lawerence has a town named Deadwood. Anyway if he is in Sioux county North Dakota he is on the South Dakota border but what he is doing living on reservation land makes me curious. If on the other hand he is in Lawerence then both Wyoming and Montana his closest neighboring states. So assuming they started out around 1pm (after Sam went for lunch) the probably got to Olivia's any where before 7pm just as long as it was light from there to Jed's which may have been farther away - I think it makes more sense than all the hunters clustered in a small area.
Zaz investigating for her own curiosity's sake
Reply
I love that Bobby gave Dean and Sam the long trip, and took the shorter hauls for himself. *G*
I think it makes more sense than all the hunters clustered in a small area.
Definitely. That was what always bugged me about the Roadhouse, the notion that this one little place would be brimming with hunters all the time. It flew in the face of everything we'd ever learned about hunters up till that point. They should be a thinly scattered network.
Reply
it makes more sense than all the hunters clustered in a small area.
*nods* Or maybe there really are a lot of hunters and we (Sam and Dean) aren't aware of how ubiquitous they are? Wouldn't it be interesting if the war breaks out (S5) and all of the sudden previously incognito hunters come popping out of the woodwork?
Although I have to say I was surprised by the hunter density in this episode, esp. because we've been lead to believe since S1 Sam and Dean are essentially the exception to the rule and hunters are loners who are far and few between.
Reply
Hmmmm. Except that since S2 show has been pulling more and more hunters out of the woodwork, shocking both Sam'n'Dean and us with their numbers. I mean...it was always my biggest gripe with the Roadhouse. I had no trouble with the concept of a saloon run by a hunter/hunter's widow/someone in the know. I had no trouble with hunters using it as a kind of contact point. But I did object to the suggestion that every person in that bar at any given moment was a hunter, and they never had any other customers. Because...I feel very strongly that however many hunters are out there, they should be scattered far and wide. A network. Not a community gathered semi-permanently in one spot.
Reply
Yes, one could argue that there are more hunters than Sam and Dean know of (and thus the viewers as we see the verse through their character filters) because John actively keep them out of the loop and isolated from the larger hunting community for a variety of reasons. And as Sam and Dean learn more about hunting (they were quite young in the pilot and even though Dean had been working solo gigs he was only 26) they and the viewers discover just how much was kept from them. So I guess what I'm saying is that perhaps this opening of the world is intentional and the viewer's assumptions about fundamental "truths" are meant to be turned upside down. Kripke is totally screwing with us!!!!!! Ack.
I did object to the suggestion that every person in that bar at any given moment was a hunter, and they never had any other customers.
Sometimes I'm orbiting my own little fandom planet, but I never explicitly got the impression that The Roadhouse was only for hunters. If it was I'm not sure it would be able to say in business unless Jo and Ellen were independently wealthy (harhar). Also, I like the idea of a subversive subculture intermingling with the norm, having hunters right under everyone's noses instead of existing separately just feels cooler.
A network. Not a community gathered semi-permanently in one spot.
I agree with you. I like the loner aspect of a hunter's life ... it makes it seem that much more desperate and weirdly heroic (very typical of the heroes in westerns). Also having whole hunting communities (communes) would vilify John more being that if he knew about them then he purposely avoided them, making his son's lives all that more fragmented and unstable for his own selfish reasons.
Reply
Well, quite! That was always my gripe. But I did get the impression that we were supposed to believe the vast majority of the clientele were hunters of some kind, and it always bugged me. I would give examples, but the thought of it exhausts me! LOL
I much prefer to think of hunters scattered far and wide - a subversive little subculture, like you say.
Reply
LOL blush -
*nods* Or maybe there really are a lot of hunters and we (Sam and Dean) aren't aware of how ubiquitous they are? Wouldn't it be interesting if the war breaks out (S5) and all of the sudden previously incognito hunters come popping out of the woodwork?
Could be but still if you just assume that we are looking at 3 states South Dakota (77,116 sq miles), Wyoming (97,816 sq miles) and Montana (147,165 sq miles) then the hunter Density is 1 hunter per 53,682 sq miles or an area the size of New York, Illinois is only slightly bigger. That's probably enough to keep a hunter busy especially in an area where there is historical precedent of atrocities, native spirits, new ghosts and not to mention if the gates to hell are in a Wyoming cemetary - what else is there? Where was I goingg with this - darned if I remember - oh yeah I know now - I guess my point was that the density really wasn't that high
Although I have to say I was surprised by the hunter density in this episode, esp. because we've been lead to believe since S1 Sam and Dean are essentially the exception to the rule and hunters are loners who are far and few between.
I think that Sam and Dean are the exception but not because they are togehter but because they know so few people. I think that their Dad's paranoia and temperment kept them isolated from other hunters. Normally I suspect that hunters may not choose to hunt together often. I mean sure you have a partner watching your back but that partner can also be a liability if he is bitten by a were or turned by a vamp or put under mind control etc. Has to be hell on the hunter who has to kill a buddy. But I bet that they interact more than John let his boys see; probably exchanging information, protective items etc After all Sam and Dean never knew about the road house until the call on John's phone where Ellen said he didn't have to do things alone. Then to both Ellen/Jo, the Campbells and the couple from Mag 7 represent hunting families. And even Crazy *ss Gordon had his buddies that he could reach out to, close enough that they visited him in Jail. travel. Its seems a lot is based on how they got into hunting and the level of psychlogical damage they took.
Reply
OMG, derived Show facts! :D You know, I bet this entire thread regarding hunter families, hunter density, hunter communication, hunter communities could be spun into an awesome, meaty meta of epic awesomeness.
I think that Sam and Dean are the exception but not because they are togehter but because they know so few people.
An important distinction to make. Also, I think that perhaps the fact the boys have each other may play a small part in why they don't know more people. Sam and Dean can rely on each other and don't necessarily have to reach out for help frequently (exception is Bobby) because they have their own "hunter community of two".
I think that their Dad's paranoia and temperment kept them isolated from other hunters.
It breaks my heart to say this (esp. after seeing young!John in 4x03), but I think so, too.
I actually like the idea of hunters having a tight network if they choose to use it. Having so few people involved makes it even more of a necessity to have a close-knit (albeit spread out geographically) group to support and keep tabs on each other, esp. because hunters adopt an "us versus them" mentality. I bet they follow the group dynamic/intimacy rule: the smaller the group generally the members are more intimate, the larger the group the associations are more causal.
Reply
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