Is that what he said? I always thought he said "You did a real good drop" which I thought meant fall.
Apparently Adrienne Palaliki (however you spell it, gah!) was asked to appear in this episode but she was unable to due to her shooting schedule.
Wow that would have been something, to see her confront Sam.
why don’t you rub it in a little more that Sam failed?
So much yes.
Castiel, don’t ever change your hair or trench coat. Or tie.
It looks like he might not. Can't wait to see what they look like by season's end.
And something as seemingly lame as pizza smelling demonstrates the physical manifestation of Dean’s need to see and experience things in order to believe in them and why Faith, something that can’t be seen or touched, is such an abstract concept to him.
Oh that's very interesting. I didn't even notice it but it makes perfect sense.
Actually, it’s pretty interesting that Sam is the believer when instinctively you’d think he’d take the more academic stance
In a way, I do get it. Because Dean is very literal but Sam is more imaginative. I think being theoretical involves a lot of open mindedness. A lot of scientific beliefs actually end up being proven wrong over time, which shows they were less grounded in reality than in belief in a certain order to the universe.
Sorry, Bobby but isn’t that Meg’s term?
Ha! I noticed this too, although it seems to be a weakness of show characters all using the same terminology because the writers do. I remember Dean mentioning "a Phillips joint" in the last episode and wondering how many people even knew what that meant. Not to mention "mooks" was used in one episode and I was wondering if we were in the 1920s again.
unless the body was already DEAD and there’s no girl inside
Actually this is an issue I wonder about. Meg's injuries were bad enough that she only lived minutes after the demon was forced out. Which makes no sense really because with that fall her skull should have shattered, but whatever. However she was conscious until the end because her body's damage was being held off by the demon. So I rather wonder if in all the other cases the host isn't trapped until such time as the demon leaves?
That may explain why she’s so eager to be Sam’s friend now and not get between him and Dean as she’s got nowhere else to go and nobody but Sam to watch her back.
That makes me rather sad for her. And it's an interesting question how much loyalty Sam might give her in return for whatever help she's provided.
Continue infecting your sleeves and hands with fecal matter.
LOL. Considering the sort of work Dean and Sam do and how rarely they apparently do laundry, I imagine most of what they own is infected with all sorts of things.
Oops. I forgot, you didn’t listen to your dad and instead played soccer.
HA!
but probably never did because Sam was bitchfacing and John was obsessing and Dean was running interference
And also because they were much younger with even shorter attention spans.
The continuity with “BDaBR” is great as Bobby built those hex/lock-boxes for John, yeah?
I think he did, yes, nice catch!
Dude, so was Lilith going to torture Sam when she tried to flash him in 3x16?!
That makes sense. She'd only just met Sam, surely she wanted to see what he was made of first.
OK, someone is going to sneak off and cavort with the enemy because that’s what happens when there’s an establishing shot with sleeping!boys
LOL! Or John is going to call.
“I”ll be there with you. That little fallen angel on your shoulder.”
That is a nice symmetry, and also, I think, telling. Ruby wanted Sam to do what she wanted, she wanted to guide him. Castiel doesn't, and what's more I wonder if he can actually force Dean to do anything?
wait does that mean there are no female angels or that female angels aren’t soldiers
I don't know of any female angels but then I'm not up on biblical mythology either. What disturbs me the most is the male/female dichotomy with angels and demons.
Did Azazel need a half-human because they exist outside of supernatural strictures? *bangs choice vs. destiny drum*
Interesting possibility. And I'd love to see more of the mundane day-to-day stuff.
And also because they were much younger with even shorter attention spans.
I imagine it was especially hard to keep Dean focused on anything he wasn't interested in.
Ruby wanted Sam to do what she wanted, she wanted to guide him. Castiel doesn't, and what's more I wonder if he can actually force Dean to do anything?
Excellent point! Interesting that we see demon Ruby pulling no stops to try to persuade Sam to go down a certain path while angel Castiel appears to Dean and commands him to do God's will. Instinctively, you'd assume it would be the other way around with free will being totted by the "good guys" and not demons.
What disturbs me the most is the male/female dichotomy with angels and demons.
Yes, for sure. Apparently in spn-verse, God is a "He", at least according to Sam (which doesn't necessarily mean anything). Part of me wonders if the fact the majority of the antagonist/named demons are female (besides Azazel and Father Gil) has been purposefully done just to provide contrast with the boys on a more symbolic/deep level OR if the writers just feel like they have to inject some sexual energy because Sam and Dean don't have love interests. Or maybe it's a complete coincidence. The S3 DVD commentaries certainly made it sound like the decision to make the next big bad a female (Lilith) was a last minute thing. I would love to see the return of strong female characters/hunters like Ellen, Missouri or Tamara. I enjoy SPN, but sometimes they get stuck in a rut.
Yes, I mean, in fairness, there have been a variety of minor demons as males -- all the henchmen in No Rest, the guy they're torturing an episode earlier, various of the 7 Sins, the possessed guys in Phantom Traveller, Meg's brother and so on. In Seasons 1 and 2 with the YED being the Big Bad, it didn't seem so lopsided. And Ruby, though a demon, is actually helpful (so far as we know), so Lilith and the Crossroads Demons aren't exactly a majority, they're just more memorable?
But yes, having some female hunters onscreen more often would certainly ease that impression (to say nothing of a female angel).
I always thought he said "You did a real good drop" which I thought meant fall.
Really? *runs to YouTube* I'm still hearing "drug" but it could be my wishful thinking kicking in again. ;)
Wow that would have been something, to see her confront Sam.
It's my not-so-secret hope that Jess is somehow rewoven into the story *coughdemoncough* because it would cause such delicious angst. However, I suspect this won't happen to the extent I'd like, but asking AP back is a sign that perhaps the writer's room hasn't completely forgotten about her.
I think being theoretical involves a lot of open mindedness.
And a lot of creativity actually. One thing I keep trying to drive home to my students is that science absolutely require a creative/imaginative mind that can navigate laws and strictures, which is an additional challenge to the traditional idea of free-reign, unfettered creativity, IMHO.
A lot of scientific beliefs actually end up being proven wrong over time, which shows they were less grounded in reality than in belief in a certain order to the universe.
Or were a reflection of the current mindset/ideals of their times. I would love to teach a science in history class whereby political/sociological aspects are taken into consideration when examining the evolution of scientific thought. However, I lack the political/soc. background ... a couple major problems.
"a Phillips joint"
I completely missed that in 4x01. Bhuz?
Not to mention "mooks" was used in one episode and I was wondering if we were in the 1920s again.
Man, I'm 0 for 2 here. Sometimes I wonder if I'm getting the same version of The Show as everyone else. *looks around*
I rather wonder if the host isn't trapped until such time as the demon leaves?
Hmmm. So if I'm understanding correctly, are you suggesting the host may be jettisoned out of their body and thus not trapped during the possession or that they're a willing participant during their possession (thus not trapped)? I think I'm having a dense day. :(
how much loyalty Sam might give her in return for whatever help she's provided.
I remember making a comment last season about how Sam will end up defending/saving Ruby in the future. I think this is what's going to happen. We'll see Sam taking up arms to keep Ruby at his side.
but asking AP back is a sign that perhaps the writer's room hasn't completely forgotten about her.
Yes!
Or were a reflection of the current mindset/ideals of their times. I would love to teach a science in history class whereby political/sociological aspects are taken into consideration when examining the evolution of scientific thought. However, I lack the political/soc. background ... a couple major problems.
Yes, exactly. Medical research alone is still so biased. That sounds like a perfect opportunity to team-teach. I know of lot of schools make it difficult to get cross-disciplinary courses approved, but they can be valuable in pulling from a larger pool of students.
I completely missed that in 4x01.
It's when Dean's clearning up at Bobby's and is talking about his experience at the gas station. I forget where the mooks reference was. I have wished dozens of times that SPN had an equivalent of the Buffy Dialogue Database.
I'm understanding correctly, are you suggesting the host may be jettisoned out of their body and thus not trapped during the possession or that they're a willing participant during their possession
No, just that death doesn't actually occur until there's a non-beating heart and no brain activity. So althought the body may have suffered fatal wounds, the fact that the demon keeps it going means that the person remains trapped in the body until the demon is exorcised. Then the demon and the host leave it at the same time.
We'll see Sam taking up arms to keep Ruby at his side.
Maybe. It'll be an interesting test of character, and I wonder if they'll take him there.
I know of lot of schools make it difficult to get cross-disciplinary courses approved, but they can be valuable in pulling from a larger pool of students.
Yes, esp. because departments get possessive and bicker over money and their allotted number of new courses added to their course listings. I used to do a lot of team teaching, one course there were five of us. In my experience it works best when there's someone who makes the decisions and manages the faculty instead of everyone trying to just "work collectively" as organization and consistency is so important esp. when it comes to evaluating the students "fairly". Team teaching has tons of benefits (and can be exciting) but it's a huge time sink and requires a lot of advanced prep and organizational meetings that not everyone has time for or is a proponent of.
No, just that death doesn't actually occur until there's a non-beating heart and no brain activity. So althought the body may have suffered fatal wounds, the fact that the demon keeps it going means that the person remains trapped in the body until the demon is exorcised. Then the demon and the host leave it at the same time.
*light bulb goes on* Sorry, I must've had a dense moment and misunderstood your original question. You know, this is how I just assumed it worked because of what we saw with Meg. I assumed that Grandpappy Samuel was still in his body after Azazel stabbed him.
But thinking about the converse of this, it would be interesting if a demon can possess a totally vacant body. Hmm. In AHBL-2 we see spirit!John separate Azazel's spirit from his host, and the host body fall to the ground and looks quite DEAD. Then Azazel jumped back in and reanimated the corpse. So, following your original line of reasoning, even IF the original soul was in the body with Azazel until Azazel was pulled out by John and then vacated his own body with Azazel, the original spirit likely didn't jump back into his own body when Azazel repossessed his body seconds later. Therefore, it seems like it's possible for at least YEDs to possess already dead bodies.
This makes me wonder if it's a possibility that Ruby is possessing an already vacant body, which makes the whole idea of rape not really an non-issue (if Sam and Ruby are, in fact, sleeping together *frown*).
In my experience it works best when there's someone who makes the decisions and manages the faculty instead of everyone trying to just "work collectively" as organization and consistency is so important.
Yes, I've done a number of team-taught courses and we did have someone designated but it's also important to set out expectations ahead of time so everyone's on the same page. Ultimately having guest speakers who don't do grading ends up being easier if it's more than 2 people. And yes, regular meetings are a must.
Therefore, it seems like it's possible for at least YEDs to possess already dead bodies.
Yes, I think so. I would expect demons in general could do it too. I mean as human beings we can keep people alive almost indefinitely with machines so there's no reason to think the demons need a host to do that.
Is that what he said? I always thought he said "You did a real good drop" which I thought meant fall.
Apparently Adrienne Palaliki (however you spell it, gah!) was asked to appear in this episode but she was unable to due to her shooting schedule.
Wow that would have been something, to see her confront Sam.
why don’t you rub it in a little more that Sam failed?
So much yes.
Castiel, don’t ever change your hair or trench coat. Or tie.
It looks like he might not. Can't wait to see what they look like by season's end.
And something as seemingly lame as pizza smelling demonstrates the physical manifestation of Dean’s need to see and experience things in order to believe in them and why Faith, something that can’t be seen or touched, is such an abstract concept to him.
Oh that's very interesting. I didn't even notice it but it makes perfect sense.
Actually, it’s pretty interesting that Sam is the believer when instinctively you’d think he’d take the more academic stance
In a way, I do get it. Because Dean is very literal but Sam is more imaginative. I think being theoretical involves a lot of open mindedness. A lot of scientific beliefs actually end up being proven wrong over time, which shows they were less grounded in reality than in belief in a certain order to the universe.
Sorry, Bobby but isn’t that Meg’s term?
Ha! I noticed this too, although it seems to be a weakness of show characters all using the same terminology because the writers do. I remember Dean mentioning "a Phillips joint" in the last episode and wondering how many people even knew what that meant. Not to mention "mooks" was used in one episode and I was wondering if we were in the 1920s again.
unless the body was already DEAD and there’s no girl inside
Actually this is an issue I wonder about. Meg's injuries were bad enough that she only lived minutes after the demon was forced out. Which makes no sense really because with that fall her skull should have shattered, but whatever. However she was conscious until the end because her body's damage was being held off by the demon. So I rather wonder if in all the other cases the host isn't trapped until such time as the demon leaves?
That may explain why she’s so eager to be Sam’s friend now and not get between him and Dean as she’s got nowhere else to go and nobody but Sam to watch her back.
That makes me rather sad for her. And it's an interesting question how much loyalty Sam might give her in return for whatever help she's provided.
Continue infecting your sleeves and hands with fecal matter.
LOL. Considering the sort of work Dean and Sam do and how rarely they apparently do laundry, I imagine most of what they own is infected with all sorts of things.
Reply
HA!
but probably never did because Sam was bitchfacing and John was obsessing and Dean was running interference
And also because they were much younger with even shorter attention spans.
The continuity with “BDaBR” is great as Bobby built those hex/lock-boxes for John, yeah?
I think he did, yes, nice catch!
Dude, so was Lilith going to torture Sam when she tried to flash him in 3x16?!
That makes sense. She'd only just met Sam, surely she wanted to see what he was made of first.
OK, someone is going to sneak off and cavort with the enemy because that’s what happens when there’s an establishing shot with sleeping!boys
LOL! Or John is going to call.
“I”ll be there with you. That little fallen angel on your shoulder.”
That is a nice symmetry, and also, I think, telling. Ruby wanted Sam to do what she wanted, she wanted to guide him. Castiel doesn't, and what's more I wonder if he can actually force Dean to do anything?
wait does that mean there are no female angels or that female angels aren’t soldiers
I don't know of any female angels but then I'm not up on biblical mythology either. What disturbs me the most is the male/female dichotomy with angels and demons.
Did Azazel need a half-human because they exist outside of supernatural strictures? *bangs choice vs. destiny drum*
Interesting possibility. And I'd love to see more of the mundane day-to-day stuff.
Reply
I imagine it was especially hard to keep Dean focused on anything he wasn't interested in.
Ruby wanted Sam to do what she wanted, she wanted to guide him. Castiel doesn't, and what's more I wonder if he can actually force Dean to do anything?
Excellent point! Interesting that we see demon Ruby pulling no stops to try to persuade Sam to go down a certain path while angel Castiel appears to Dean and commands him to do God's will. Instinctively, you'd assume it would be the other way around with free will being totted by the "good guys" and not demons.
What disturbs me the most is the male/female dichotomy with angels and demons.
Yes, for sure. Apparently in spn-verse, God is a "He", at least according to Sam (which doesn't necessarily mean anything). Part of me wonders if the fact the majority of the antagonist/named demons are female (besides Azazel and Father Gil) has been purposefully done just to provide contrast with the boys on a more symbolic/deep level OR if the writers just feel like they have to inject some sexual energy because Sam and Dean don't have love interests. Or maybe it's a complete coincidence. The S3 DVD commentaries certainly made it sound like the decision to make the next big bad a female (Lilith) was a last minute thing. I would love to see the return of strong female characters/hunters like Ellen, Missouri or Tamara. I enjoy SPN, but sometimes they get stuck in a rut.
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But yes, having some female hunters onscreen more often would certainly ease that impression (to say nothing of a female angel).
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Really? *runs to YouTube* I'm still hearing "drug" but it could be my wishful thinking kicking in again. ;)
Wow that would have been something, to see her confront Sam.
It's my not-so-secret hope that Jess is somehow rewoven into the story *coughdemoncough* because it would cause such delicious angst. However, I suspect this won't happen to the extent I'd like, but asking AP back is a sign that perhaps the writer's room hasn't completely forgotten about her.
I think being theoretical involves a lot of open mindedness.
And a lot of creativity actually. One thing I keep trying to drive home to my students is that science absolutely require a creative/imaginative mind that can navigate laws and strictures, which is an additional challenge to the traditional idea of free-reign, unfettered creativity, IMHO.
A lot of scientific beliefs actually end up being proven wrong over time, which shows they were less grounded in reality than in belief in a certain order to the universe.
Or were a reflection of the current mindset/ideals of their times. I would love to teach a science in history class whereby political/sociological aspects are taken into consideration when examining the evolution of scientific thought. However, I lack the political/soc. background ... a couple major problems.
"a Phillips joint"
I completely missed that in 4x01. Bhuz?
Not to mention "mooks" was used in one episode and I was wondering if we were in the 1920s again.
Man, I'm 0 for 2 here. Sometimes I wonder if I'm getting the same version of The Show as everyone else. *looks around*
I rather wonder if the host isn't trapped until such time as the demon leaves?
Hmmm. So if I'm understanding correctly, are you suggesting the host may be jettisoned out of their body and thus not trapped during the possession or that they're a willing participant during their possession (thus not trapped)? I think I'm having a dense day. :(
how much loyalty Sam might give her in return for whatever help she's provided.
I remember making a comment last season about how Sam will end up defending/saving Ruby in the future. I think this is what's going to happen. We'll see Sam taking up arms to keep Ruby at his side.
Reply
Yes!
Or were a reflection of the current mindset/ideals of their times. I would love to teach a science in history class whereby political/sociological aspects are taken into consideration when examining the evolution of scientific thought. However, I lack the political/soc. background ... a couple major problems.
Yes, exactly. Medical research alone is still so biased. That sounds like a perfect opportunity to team-teach. I know of lot of schools make it difficult to get cross-disciplinary courses approved, but they can be valuable in pulling from a larger pool of students.
I completely missed that in 4x01.
It's when Dean's clearning up at Bobby's and is talking about his experience at the gas station. I forget where the mooks reference was. I have wished dozens of times that SPN had an equivalent of the Buffy Dialogue Database.
I'm understanding correctly, are you suggesting the host may be jettisoned out of their body and thus not trapped during the possession or that they're a willing participant during their possession
No, just that death doesn't actually occur until there's a non-beating heart and no brain activity. So althought the body may have suffered fatal wounds, the fact that the demon keeps it going means that the person remains trapped in the body until the demon is exorcised. Then the demon and the host leave it at the same time.
We'll see Sam taking up arms to keep Ruby at his side.
Maybe. It'll be an interesting test of character, and I wonder if they'll take him there.
Reply
Yes, esp. because departments get possessive and bicker over money and their allotted number of new courses added to their course listings. I used to do a lot of team teaching, one course there were five of us. In my experience it works best when there's someone who makes the decisions and manages the faculty instead of everyone trying to just "work collectively" as organization and consistency is so important esp. when it comes to evaluating the students "fairly". Team teaching has tons of benefits (and can be exciting) but it's a huge time sink and requires a lot of advanced prep and organizational meetings that not everyone has time for or is a proponent of.
No, just that death doesn't actually occur until there's a non-beating heart and no brain activity. So althought the body may have suffered fatal wounds, the fact that the demon keeps it going means that the person remains trapped in the body until the demon is exorcised. Then the demon and the host leave it at the same time.
*light bulb goes on* Sorry, I must've had a dense moment and misunderstood your original question. You know, this is how I just assumed it worked because of what we saw with Meg. I assumed that Grandpappy Samuel was still in his body after Azazel stabbed him.
But thinking about the converse of this, it would be interesting if a demon can possess a totally vacant body. Hmm. In AHBL-2 we see spirit!John separate Azazel's spirit from his host, and the host body fall to the ground and looks quite DEAD. Then Azazel jumped back in and reanimated the corpse. So, following your original line of reasoning, even IF the original soul was in the body with Azazel until Azazel was pulled out by John and then vacated his own body with Azazel, the original spirit likely didn't jump back into his own body when Azazel repossessed his body seconds later. Therefore, it seems like it's possible for at least YEDs to possess already dead bodies.
This makes me wonder if it's a possibility that Ruby is possessing an already vacant body, which makes the whole idea of rape not really an non-issue (if Sam and Ruby are, in fact, sleeping together *frown*).
Reply
collectively" as organization and consistency is so important.
Yes, I've done a number of team-taught courses and we did have someone designated but it's also important to set out expectations ahead of time so everyone's on the same page. Ultimately having guest speakers who don't do grading ends up being easier if it's more than 2 people. And yes, regular meetings are a must.
Therefore, it seems like it's possible for at least YEDs to possess already dead bodies.
Yes, I think so. I would expect demons in general could do it too. I mean as human beings we can keep people alive almost indefinitely with machines so there's no reason to think the demons need a host to do that.
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!!!
What courses have you taught if you don't mind me asking?
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