lunching with satan
Interesting lunch today. I had a meeting from 1 until 2, and I'm typically the guy who organizes group lunches for the new guys (Clyde, Vincent, Jesse, and I) so we all ate late today. The upside, of course, is that Willys was almost completely vacant. We had a table to ourselves on the patio, and by that point everyone was ready to eat, and just to think about something other than work for a while.
Now, it is important at this point in the story to note that Jesse is a fundamentalist Lutheran. Young-Earth creationism, for example. Every word in the Bible (New Revised version--I asked) is literal truth. Vincent did not grow up in church; Clyde is Catholic, but is neither a Biblical literalist nor a young-earther, and I'm full of youthful arrogance and psychotropics. Naturally, the conversation drifted towards religion. The question of the day revolved around a few of Jesse's beliefs, namely, that murder and assisted suicide are wrong, but war and capital punishment are okay. The question was basically, "huh?" After a lot of circular talk and waffling, the answer came. "Perhaps it doesn't make strict logical sense, but who are we to say that God will make logical sense."
Now, I'm pretty down with that. I'm pretty certain that logic, which was really only formalized in order to deal with one of the greatest forces of humanity--the argumentativeness of Greeks, is a pathetically inadequate tool for dealing with the things that really matter, like love, beauty, and the sheer mind blowing perfection of creation. But what Jesse said hit a very different note for me than that. It very much came off as "this is what God has said and it is sinful to question it." That, I have beef with. Accepting for the moment that, as Jesse believes, God created each human with ten fingers and ten toes and (relevant to the matter at hand) several billion neurons wired together in an astonishingly useful way, I think that it is silly to think that God would have given us the brainpower that It gave us only to damn us if we dare use it. I deeply and truly believe that "Those who seek me, find me" refers to the vast amounts of evidence of God that are lying around all over the place. Trees, rivers, stars, girls--If you are not constantly in awe, you are not paying attention.
As you may have deduced, the conversation did not change anybody's mind. I think it's best summed up by the following brief exchange:
Me: I don't think I'm quite the moral absolutist that you are.
Jesse: [laughs, somewhere between scorn and exasperation] That's an understatement.
So really the reason that I'm so worked up about this came on the drive home. Jesse and Clyde, both of whom come from denominations that don't give communion to "outs," were discussing the wisdom of that policy. Jesse said something about how it's just because other denominations don't think communion is important, and therefor will give it to any damn sinner they want to. I told him that, as an Episcopalian (let me self-identify however I want to), I've always taken from that that God's love is for everyone, and that is why we don't deny it to people. Jesse said, this time with the derision positively dripping from his mouth, "well, that's tied into the idea that God doesn't care what you do." I said "I can feel the scorn in your voice." He said "That's because it's present, like Christ's body in the sacrament."
okay. I think his God is petty and brittle. I don't say shit like that, because it is very likely to offend him. Well, it would if it penetrated his bible-thumping rind. I was a little surprised at myself for how irritated I got, as I consider myself more or less lapsed.
In other news, my beer is empty...now. I'm headed to the refrigerator.
Now, it is important at this point in the story to note that Jesse is a fundamentalist Lutheran. Young-Earth creationism, for example. Every word in the Bible (New Revised version--I asked) is literal truth. Vincent did not grow up in church; Clyde is Catholic, but is neither a Biblical literalist nor a young-earther, and I'm full of youthful arrogance and psychotropics. Naturally, the conversation drifted towards religion. The question of the day revolved around a few of Jesse's beliefs, namely, that murder and assisted suicide are wrong, but war and capital punishment are okay. The question was basically, "huh?" After a lot of circular talk and waffling, the answer came. "Perhaps it doesn't make strict logical sense, but who are we to say that God will make logical sense."
Now, I'm pretty down with that. I'm pretty certain that logic, which was really only formalized in order to deal with one of the greatest forces of humanity--the argumentativeness of Greeks, is a pathetically inadequate tool for dealing with the things that really matter, like love, beauty, and the sheer mind blowing perfection of creation. But what Jesse said hit a very different note for me than that. It very much came off as "this is what God has said and it is sinful to question it." That, I have beef with. Accepting for the moment that, as Jesse believes, God created each human with ten fingers and ten toes and (relevant to the matter at hand) several billion neurons wired together in an astonishingly useful way, I think that it is silly to think that God would have given us the brainpower that It gave us only to damn us if we dare use it. I deeply and truly believe that "Those who seek me, find me" refers to the vast amounts of evidence of God that are lying around all over the place. Trees, rivers, stars, girls--If you are not constantly in awe, you are not paying attention.
As you may have deduced, the conversation did not change anybody's mind. I think it's best summed up by the following brief exchange:
Me: I don't think I'm quite the moral absolutist that you are.
Jesse: [laughs, somewhere between scorn and exasperation] That's an understatement.
So really the reason that I'm so worked up about this came on the drive home. Jesse and Clyde, both of whom come from denominations that don't give communion to "outs," were discussing the wisdom of that policy. Jesse said something about how it's just because other denominations don't think communion is important, and therefor will give it to any damn sinner they want to. I told him that, as an Episcopalian (let me self-identify however I want to), I've always taken from that that God's love is for everyone, and that is why we don't deny it to people. Jesse said, this time with the derision positively dripping from his mouth, "well, that's tied into the idea that God doesn't care what you do." I said "I can feel the scorn in your voice." He said "That's because it's present, like Christ's body in the sacrament."
okay. I think his God is petty and brittle. I don't say shit like that, because it is very likely to offend him. Well, it would if it penetrated his bible-thumping rind. I was a little surprised at myself for how irritated I got, as I consider myself more or less lapsed.
In other news, my beer is empty...now. I'm headed to the refrigerator.