don't say we. you don't deserve to lump yourself into that group. sometimes, you have to look at humanity in terms of two categories: the harmful, and the harmless. there are the select few that ruin things for everyone else, and as much as it may sound like a cop out, you've done nothing wrong. you can't identify all of humanity just with those few. because when you do something wrong, you apologize for it and repent. how can you repent for something you haven't done? you can't.
and yeah, i know ayn rand would say differently. she can suck it.
i have contributed, though... i have driven a car more often than i should have... i have let the water run in the shower... i have thrown away recicleables... and even though these things seem small and unavoidable, they are not insignificant.
i think that all humans do contribute to this destruction, i don't think it's a select few. i think that such is the nature of being human, or even being alive. and i hate dichotomies. but in response to tinks, i think that because it's human, it is natural, and it is inevitable. it's kind of related to my perspective on human life: you are. you can never say "the world would have been better if i was never born." because there is no world without you. just the fact that you are changes the world. but if you WERE never born, then that would have been the way the world was. but you can't even begin to think about the way the world "would have been" because it's impossible to know. everything that happens in the world happens. sure, we've raped the land, but that's what we did. we are nature. that is what nature did. the natural course of events. and whatever happens, i think no one has a right to tell other countries not to acquire the technology and modernisation that is available. Change is. for better or worse. and
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Re: entropywaterytartFebruary 19 2004, 09:12:15 UTC
mai, i agree with you even though you think i may not. above, i reacted to a specific term, "horror," and said that i don't believe we all contribute to that. but the term "destruction" is completely different. we destroy in order to survive, whether that be on the level of competing with others to obtain a higher position in the workplace or on par with picking an apple from a tree and eating it. it's normal, it's natural, and it's life. you can't feel guilty for that.
so yeah, i agree. sorry i had to ramble like that just to reinforce my agreement.
p.s. this same group always seems to get into discussions like this. jessi, rel, jim, ZITO, speak up! your vote counts too, ya know.
My question to you is, what are these things that you call "horror"? Destroying rainforests? Waring with one another? What burden are you speaking of when you are talking about being human? You are right, all of humanity is guilty. But with this evil, there has also been much good. If you are comparing humanity to perfection, then you will drive yourself mad, because with such a comparision, every lie you tell is equal to 100 holocausts. You are right, compared to such a standard we have failed, we all have since the dawn of man. The question then becomes what your mind does to reconcile with that fact.
its a burden to know that we have ruined what once was pure... it is a burden to feel resonsibility... and it is a burden to merely be concerned with morality. it is a burden to have to distinguish between what feels right and what is right. the thing is, there isnt any escaping from it unless you refuse to take responsibility... and i cannot bring myself to do that... who knows whats right?
why can't you take responsibility for it? having contributed, as we all do, in some way to negativity (although i don't agree with you when you say we all contribute to "horror"), why can't you try to live your life in a way that leaves room for giving back? i know it's not the same, but what is moping about the fact that you spent a minute longer than necessary in the shower this morning going to do to replace the water? you have to do something--and i agree, doing nothing at all may even put you in that "horror" category--or else your life will be dishonorable and pointless. you know that. you've lived your life with that philosophy ever since i've known you; why is that such a hard pill for you to swallow now?
I mean "horror" in the broadest of terms. In general, humankind has ravaged the world... we've raped it... and we've done the same to eachother. i speak not only as myself, but as humankind... genus humanum... the race of humans that ovid speaks of... yes, it is reflected on a personal level too, as i mentioned before, but what i'm talking about is the broader history of human life... and the view forward of what is to come.
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and yeah, i know ayn rand would say differently. she can suck it.
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so yeah, i agree. sorry i had to ramble like that just to reinforce my agreement.
p.s. this same group always seems to get into discussions like this. jessi, rel, jim, ZITO, speak up! your vote counts too, ya know.
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If you are comparing humanity to perfection, then you will drive yourself mad, because with such a comparision, every lie you tell is equal to 100 holocausts. You are right, compared to such a standard we have failed, we all have since the dawn of man. The question then becomes what your mind does to reconcile with that fact.
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I mean "horror" in the broadest of terms. In general, humankind has ravaged the world... we've raped it... and we've done the same to eachother. i speak not only as myself, but as humankind... genus humanum... the race of humans that ovid speaks of... yes, it is reflected on a personal level too, as i mentioned before, but what i'm talking about is the broader history of human life... and the view forward of what is to come.
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