(no subject)
OKAY, ANGER. RIGHT FUCKING HERE.
Backstory: I'm playing Dungeons and Dragons with Mike and Brian. Brian's DMing our first campaign of 4.0, using a pre-made campaign. We enter a dungeon, there's a pit with a rat swarm and a goblin standing next to it. I think everything else is written underneath the cut.
23:26 Bdoing Okay, so we're playing 4e, and we're all just learning, so we're checking the PHB every 5 minutes, at least.
23:26 Bdoing So arguments happen, but then when we check the rules, it decides it pretty uch every time
23:26 echoblaze sounds fair so far
23:27 Bdoing He's got a house rule where while we're attacking, if we roll a 1, he gets us to roll again, and if we miss again (even without another one), then it's an incredible fail, worse than average
23:27 Bdoing Most of the time that means that we hit an ally instead
23:27 Bdoing An it's only ever come up with vs. AC or vs. Reflex attacks/powers so far
23:28 Bdoing I'm playing a Druid, and I cast an area of effect power (Grasping Tide, iirc)
23:28 Bdoing And I roll for the first person of two that is effected, I roll a 1 and then a 2
23:29 Bdoing "Okay, so the extreme fail is that you don't even get to roll for the other guy."
23:30 echoblaze is... that allowed ?
23:30 echoblaze and was the 2 considered a miss ?
23:30 Bdoing I go "okay, no, that doesn't make sense - when you're aiming, okay, you miss and you miss so badly you hit another character, whatever
23:31 Bdoing but... I'm placing a whirlpool, and rolling versus fortitude. It's still going to hit him, and just because the rat swarm withstands the onslaght of water doesn't mean that I completely miss the other guy"
23:32 Bdoing Yeah, it's his house rule, and house rules are totally allowd (and the 2 was a miss, yeah, lol)
23:32 Bdoing It's just that at this point, he's saying something that doesn't make any sense at all
23:33 Bdoing We ended up arguing for about ten minutes, with me trying to explain to him that it doesn't make any sense in-game at ALL
23:33 echoblaze what did he try to say in response to that ?
23:33 Bdoing And his arguments range from "Too bad, it's my house rule, so that's what we're doing" to "It's not /going/ to make sense, just listen to me"
23:34 Bdoing And then he tried to say first that the attack roll is how strong the whirlpool is (but 'multiple attacks, one damage', referring to rolls, seems to indicate that in AoE spells, it's the damage roll that indicates how strong the effect is)
23:35 Bdoing And then that if the rats resisted it that easily, then there's no point in even rolling for the goblin who was caught in it.
23:35 Bdoing And I just went "okay, NEITHER of those make sense - make it make sense or give me my effing attack roll."
23:36 Bdoing Ten minutes later, he goes "okay, fine, I don't want to argue, this is ruining the night, just roll for the other guy."
23:36 echoblaze hopefully it wasn't a 1 =|
23:36 Bdoing I roll a total of 17, well above an average goblin (which this guy, to all appearances, was)'s Fort roll
23:36 Bdoing err, fort defense
23:36 Bdoing "It fails."
23:36 Bdoing Later in the adventure, I hit a similar nondescript goblin with the exact same attack with a roll of 12
23:37 Bdoing So not only was it that he bolstered an enemy's defenses just to spite me because his house rule was superseded by an actual rule
23:37 Bdoing But he then forgot to keep said defense bolstered.
23:38 echoblaze clearly he doesn't like you and is just making life difficult for you =|
23:38 Bdoing Yeah.
23:38 echoblaze that really doesn't make any sense, he contradicted himself
23:38 Bdoing Well, he likes me in general, but he was just kind of... refusing to let his house rule - for the new setting, in a new situation - be shot down.
23:38 echoblaze you should just refuse to play with him again
23:39 Bdoing I'm gonna finish the adventure we've already started, but yeah, that's the plan.
23:40 Bdoing Oh, and second thing that he did, which while not explicitly going against the rules
23:40 Bdoing There were a couple goblins that ran into a room and then down a hall with a curtain
23:40 Bdoing first, the only goblin who didn't stay in the room just ~happened~ to be the goblin that was the Avenger's Oath of Emnity (meaning he got bonuses against it)
23:41 Bdoing Secondly, while said goblin could poke a crossbow through the curtain to shoot at us (and still hit us, with our ACs being quite high)
23:42 Bdoing Someone asked if he could hear the sounds of combat through it.
23:42 Bdoing "No, you can't hear anything."
23:43 echoblaze so the goblin shot you behind a curtain and you didn't hear anything ?
23:45 Bdoing "... Wait, as in there's no noise, or as in the curtain blocks the noise?"
23:45 Bdoing "The curtain blocks the noise."
23:46 Bdoing And then later, my character could hear sounds of combat from about 200 feet away down two corridors and around a corner over a rat swarm
23:46 Bdoing but not through the curtain and about 80 feet.
23:47 Bdoing But he could have just said "There wasn't any combat noise, so no, you didn't hear anything."
23:47 Bdoing (We heard/felt/saw the crossbow, it was afterwards when we were trying to chase after the thing.
23:47 Bdoing )
23:48 echoblaze if the other players aren't having that great a time, maybe you guys can vote to change DMs =)
23:48 Bdoing There're only two of us, and we're talking about it now, neither of us are pleased at all
23:49 Bdoing But the thing is, I'm the other DM
23:49 Bdoing And I'm not doing that on top of NaNo.
23:49 echoblaze that's true, NaNo is a huge time sink
23:50 Bdoing Yeah
If you're a gaming nerd, especially if you know D&D (and especially especially if you know 4.0), please look at it and let me know if I should have just said 'okay, whatever, you're the DM' or if this is a situation where I was right to argue? It's to the point where I'm going to finish the adventure, but I'm not going to play with him DMing after that. Does that sound fair?
Backstory: I'm playing Dungeons and Dragons with Mike and Brian. Brian's DMing our first campaign of 4.0, using a pre-made campaign. We enter a dungeon, there's a pit with a rat swarm and a goblin standing next to it. I think everything else is written underneath the cut.
23:26 Bdoing Okay, so we're playing 4e, and we're all just learning, so we're checking the PHB every 5 minutes, at least.
23:26 Bdoing So arguments happen, but then when we check the rules, it decides it pretty uch every time
23:26 echoblaze sounds fair so far
23:27 Bdoing He's got a house rule where while we're attacking, if we roll a 1, he gets us to roll again, and if we miss again (even without another one), then it's an incredible fail, worse than average
23:27 Bdoing Most of the time that means that we hit an ally instead
23:27 Bdoing An it's only ever come up with vs. AC or vs. Reflex attacks/powers so far
23:28 Bdoing I'm playing a Druid, and I cast an area of effect power (Grasping Tide, iirc)
23:28 Bdoing And I roll for the first person of two that is effected, I roll a 1 and then a 2
23:29 Bdoing "Okay, so the extreme fail is that you don't even get to roll for the other guy."
23:30 echoblaze is... that allowed ?
23:30 echoblaze and was the 2 considered a miss ?
23:30 Bdoing I go "okay, no, that doesn't make sense - when you're aiming, okay, you miss and you miss so badly you hit another character, whatever
23:31 Bdoing but... I'm placing a whirlpool, and rolling versus fortitude. It's still going to hit him, and just because the rat swarm withstands the onslaght of water doesn't mean that I completely miss the other guy"
23:32 Bdoing Yeah, it's his house rule, and house rules are totally allowd (and the 2 was a miss, yeah, lol)
23:32 Bdoing It's just that at this point, he's saying something that doesn't make any sense at all
23:33 Bdoing We ended up arguing for about ten minutes, with me trying to explain to him that it doesn't make any sense in-game at ALL
23:33 echoblaze what did he try to say in response to that ?
23:33 Bdoing And his arguments range from "Too bad, it's my house rule, so that's what we're doing" to "It's not /going/ to make sense, just listen to me"
23:34 Bdoing And then he tried to say first that the attack roll is how strong the whirlpool is (but 'multiple attacks, one damage', referring to rolls, seems to indicate that in AoE spells, it's the damage roll that indicates how strong the effect is)
23:35 Bdoing And then that if the rats resisted it that easily, then there's no point in even rolling for the goblin who was caught in it.
23:35 Bdoing And I just went "okay, NEITHER of those make sense - make it make sense or give me my effing attack roll."
23:36 Bdoing Ten minutes later, he goes "okay, fine, I don't want to argue, this is ruining the night, just roll for the other guy."
23:36 echoblaze hopefully it wasn't a 1 =|
23:36 Bdoing I roll a total of 17, well above an average goblin (which this guy, to all appearances, was)'s Fort roll
23:36 Bdoing err, fort defense
23:36 Bdoing "It fails."
23:36 Bdoing Later in the adventure, I hit a similar nondescript goblin with the exact same attack with a roll of 12
23:37 Bdoing So not only was it that he bolstered an enemy's defenses just to spite me because his house rule was superseded by an actual rule
23:37 Bdoing But he then forgot to keep said defense bolstered.
23:38 echoblaze clearly he doesn't like you and is just making life difficult for you =|
23:38 Bdoing Yeah.
23:38 echoblaze that really doesn't make any sense, he contradicted himself
23:38 Bdoing Well, he likes me in general, but he was just kind of... refusing to let his house rule - for the new setting, in a new situation - be shot down.
23:38 echoblaze you should just refuse to play with him again
23:39 Bdoing I'm gonna finish the adventure we've already started, but yeah, that's the plan.
23:40 Bdoing Oh, and second thing that he did, which while not explicitly going against the rules
23:40 Bdoing There were a couple goblins that ran into a room and then down a hall with a curtain
23:40 Bdoing first, the only goblin who didn't stay in the room just ~happened~ to be the goblin that was the Avenger's Oath of Emnity (meaning he got bonuses against it)
23:41 Bdoing Secondly, while said goblin could poke a crossbow through the curtain to shoot at us (and still hit us, with our ACs being quite high)
23:42 Bdoing Someone asked if he could hear the sounds of combat through it.
23:42 Bdoing "No, you can't hear anything."
23:43 echoblaze so the goblin shot you behind a curtain and you didn't hear anything ?
23:45 Bdoing "... Wait, as in there's no noise, or as in the curtain blocks the noise?"
23:45 Bdoing "The curtain blocks the noise."
23:46 Bdoing And then later, my character could hear sounds of combat from about 200 feet away down two corridors and around a corner over a rat swarm
23:46 Bdoing but not through the curtain and about 80 feet.
23:47 Bdoing But he could have just said "There wasn't any combat noise, so no, you didn't hear anything."
23:47 Bdoing (We heard/felt/saw the crossbow, it was afterwards when we were trying to chase after the thing.
23:47 Bdoing )
23:48 echoblaze if the other players aren't having that great a time, maybe you guys can vote to change DMs =)
23:48 Bdoing There're only two of us, and we're talking about it now, neither of us are pleased at all
23:49 Bdoing But the thing is, I'm the other DM
23:49 Bdoing And I'm not doing that on top of NaNo.
23:49 echoblaze that's true, NaNo is a huge time sink
23:50 Bdoing Yeah
If you're a gaming nerd, especially if you know D&D (and especially especially if you know 4.0), please look at it and let me know if I should have just said 'okay, whatever, you're the DM' or if this is a situation where I was right to argue? It's to the point where I'm going to finish the adventure, but I'm not going to play with him DMing after that. Does that sound fair?